Grounding Skills: How to Live in the Present

In this episode of Chris and Jen in the Morning, the hosts dive into the practice of grounding—a vital skill for maintaining internal stability in an unpredictable world. They explore how stress and trauma pull us out of the present moment, triggering survival instincts that steal resources from our ability to reason and find peace. By building the "muscle" of grounding, listeners can learn to navigate emotional flooding and stay connected to their bodies.

Three Pivotal Points:

• Grounding is a Build-able Skill: Being grounded is not an innate personality trait; it is a muscle that anyone can develop through practice and specific techniques, regardless of their background.
• The Impact of the Sympathetic Nervous System: When we aren't grounded, our brains prioritize threat detection, funneling energy toward "fight or flight" responses like increased heart rate and blood pressure, which can lead to chronic burnout.
• Barriers to Staying Present: Modern challenges—including social media overstimulation, "people-pleasing" habits, and chronic productivity culture—constantly work to pull us away from the present moment and our own emotional regulation.

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Chapters

00:00 Grounding: The Good Kind

01:48 Celebrating Mother's Day and Gratitude

08:07 The Importance of Grounding

18:18 Understanding Grounding Techniques

38:52 Practical Grounding Strategies

45:40 Grounding Techniques for Everyday Life

49:03 Emotional Grounding and Self-Compassion

52:08 Lifestyle Grounding: Setting Up for Success

57:57 The Importance of Human Connection

01:01:07 Building a Grounded Life: Skills and Strategies

01:04:13 Outro

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

In a world that never stops moving, how often do you find yourself drifting away from the person you actually want to be? We spend our days caught in the anxiety loop, constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop, or buried under the weight of productivity culture that tells us we are never enough. But what if you could find internal stability, even when everything around you is unstable? What if you could learn to dance in the rain? Not as a cliche, but as a practice of being truly present in your own life.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

I know a lot of times we we talk about awareness uh is the key and listen to your emotions, and emotions or feelings are signals, not the enemy, but sometimes they're just too big to deal with in the moment. Being grounded is is the art of being aware of your emotions without drowning in them.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

It's being in the moment um and trying to reduce the overwhelming emotion that may be um flooding you. And so it's yeah, it's just trying to be present and and refocus on the right now versus what could be or what has been.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Today, Chris and Jen explore the art of grounding, not as a personality trait, but as a muscle you can build to reclaim your agency and respond to life rather than just reacting to it. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_05 1:29

Welcome to Chris and Jen in the morning, where self-care meets real life. I'm Chris.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

And I'm Jen. We are so excited to be here today.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

We are.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Today we are talking about being grounded. Like, not the punishment kind, the good kinds.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

Oh, okay. Yeah. See, I almost didn't show up because I was like, wait, if I'm gonna be, if we're gonna go back through this childhood trauma of being grounded, I'm not interested in in having that conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

No, we're not doing that. What did you did were you did you get grounded? What were you grounded from? Like back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 2:01

You know, it may be surprising, but I had a little bit of a smart mouth on me. And so that got me into trouble. And ma m mainly from TV. Like I didn't really I wasn't really into video games and things like that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Yeah, I had a Game Boy, um, a discman, um, you know, the phone that plugged into the wall. Uh actually, I, you know, I probably by that point the phone wasn't plugged into the wall anymore. It was like one of those battery ones, but you had to put it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 2:33

You had to make sure you put it on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

It had the antenna that you could pull up and down.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:40

But we're not talking about that kind of grounding.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

I mean, but like let's just say hey to moms everywhere that are, you know, trying to keep their kids in line and raise them right, um, you know, grounding or, you know, whatever. Um, I have worn my self-proclaimed title of mom of the year because as we record, it is Mother's Day. So happy Mother's Day to me and every other mother out there.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

That's right. Happy Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

All of those wonderful, amazing people who are mothers to the, you know, community of individuals that you don't have somebody to uh mother them. Um so just happy Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Happy Mother's Day. And also like last week we recorded on your birthday. This week we're recording on Mother's Day. Like I know. Thank you for being so so willing to share these important days with me.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

You are welcome. You are welcome. All right. So speaking of gratitude, before we start talking about grounding, like the the actual like exercise or practice of feeling grounded, grounding ourselves in a healthy way. Let's talk about gratitude.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Because I like to ground myself in gratitude. Um, and why don't you start?

SPEAKER_05 4:00

I would love to. I have many of times since living in New York City, and I may have talked about this, and it may have been a gratitude moment in the past, but who cares? I have found myself yesterday in Torrental Downpour without an umbrella again.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Oh and you were just really grateful for umbrellas.

SPEAKER_05 4:20

No, I'm actually really grateful whenever those moments happen because it's usually like in a moment where I need, and actually now that I'm saying this out loud, it probably goes really well with being grounded. The times that I can really remember this happening to me, I have really needed something that really pulls me out of whatever is happening.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

You needed to be doused with a bucket of water, is what you're saying. And I wasn't there, I was here.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

So the universe did my dirty work.

SPEAKER_05 4:53

Exactly. So I will just say, and maybe I can go back and find some pictures, and for those watching on YouTube, we can put them on the screen here. But like there have been several moments where it has really kind of pulled me out of my own head, pulled me out of my emotions, and just allowed me to like reflect. And I remember one time it again, torrential downpour, no umbrella. I am soaked. And I just remember I started laughing because it was like one of those days, like it was just uh it was a tough day. And then all of a sudden, like I get out of my subway to walk home, and it is torrentially boring. I'm like, great, mm-hmm, great. Yeah, this this is exactly how today would wrap up. And it was whenever I lived on the Upper East Side, and so like trudging down, trying not to slip down the hill. And it just for some reason it was like, here you are, Chris. Like here, so the rain is pouring. You're still surviving, you're here. And I just start like laughing to myself. I'm sure I look like a crazy person on the street. But I'm I just started laughing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

So go unnoticed.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

Yeah, so I'm grateful for those moments that when the universe just reminds me, like this is a moment in time. It's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Love that. Uh, you needed uh, who is it, Michelle Pfeiffer it from One Fine Day, uh, to pull the the raincoat out of her big magic bag.

SPEAKER_05 6:21

Yeah, exactly. And was nowhere to be found.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Nowhere to be found. Um, well, I love that. And um, I love, you know, I I love how that ties in with being grounded because sometimes you do need something to like physically remind you of the present. And there is nothing quite uh like getting doused with water to pull you back into the moment of right now.

SPEAKER_05 6:46

Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Um, well, my gratitude moment this week is um it's I I kind of have two that I want to sneak in. Um, the first one, not to be underrated, is I'm just really grateful for my kid. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be a mom. It is by far my favorite job I've ever had, or role, I should say, I shouldn't call it a job.

SPEAKER_05 7:08

My opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

My the favorite role I have played in life um to be somebody's mom, um, who is such an amazing, beautiful human. And um, I'm just really grateful for that opportunity. I also am really, really grateful for um organizations like Mama Bears, um, who, you know, give away free mom hugs and support to those who don't have that kind of support in their lives, and particularly for the LGBTQ community, where so many people don't have um that like mom that they can go to and get a hug and be told it's all gonna be okay and be accepted and have that balance of like raise your right accountability and also like the mom's rose-colored glasses. Like you will make choices that you aren't proud of, but I will love you no matter what. And so I'm just really incredibly grateful for um Liz Dyer and and the community of Mama Bears that um continued to fill in the gaps. Um, so just huge thanks for that on Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

Well, you know that I absolutely adore my sibling that you birthed. Um they are quite a fantastic human being. So um I would agree with that one and Mama Bears for being a voice, being an advocate, being like that physical presence even for people who need it, like it is a um wonderful organization that has truly cast a very wide net and I think made great impact, uh, especially within the LGBTQ plus community. So a huge shout out and thank you to them.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Yes. And if you have extra mother bear um you know, energy to offer, uh, be you no matter what gender, um look into the group, uh Real Mama Bears, and um and figure out how to get plugged in because there are people who need what you have to offer. Um right. So let's talk about being grounded, Chris. The good kind.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

The good kind of grounded.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Um, and let's talk about what being grounded means. It's um, I think what's really important to call out here is that anyone can do this or learn to do this. This is a skill. It's not a personality trait. This is not something that, you know, either you have or you don't have. It's a muscle that you can build. And some people maybe have been brought up naturally with some, you know, great examples to follow or some uh techniques that were just woven in as a part of the way that they live life. And other people like never were taught how to lift that barbell. And so um, you got to start building it. But we want to talk about, you know, why it's important, what it does for us, but also what is it? Um and so, Chris, when I said, hey, do you want to talk about being grounded? Um, what what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_05 10:18

I mean, I think I texted you and was like I'm absolutely down for this. I'm gonna have to do some research because it's not, it is not something that I innately um I don't know, like for some reason it I know I know about grounding exercises, I know the the phrase and terminology around it, but I hadn't really, I guess, looked into how it actually like what are the actual th steps or the the the physical sensations and things like that that you can um tap into to ground yourself. Um and part of me is also like grounded as in like I take off my shoes outside and put my put my feet on on the grass or touch a tree or that is sometimes what people do.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

It is because it it connects you to the present of right now. It takes you out of all of the past and the future and really connects you to what is going on right now, and you get connected to what you're feeling, what you're thinking, you know, all of those things. Um you it helps you pull away from when your thoughts or emotions. So I'd say you get connected to what you're feeling, but like if your feelings are carrying you away somewhere else, it actually can help you pull back from that if you're not ready to process through those in a in a productive way. Um so being crowned, being grounded means being internally stable, even when external things are unstable. It is connected to the present moment here and now, which I'm not very good at. So this is something I have, I have to use these tools to because I don't naturally uh do that well. Um emotionally regulated, being emotionally regulated. Um, so we talk about dysregulation, we talk about being regulated. Being grounded means to be emotionally regulated. Um, connected to your body, that is something I struggle with, is being connected to my body. And I think that's a coping mechanism that you learned through life. So um, so this helps kind of bring you back to be connected to your body, um, able to respond instead of react. We talk a lot about that on our show, um, and how to give ourselves um the power back because we have agency over how we react or how we respond to situations. Um, but but when we're reacting versus responding, we're sort of letting our emotions drive our choices. Um aware of your emotions without drowning in them. So it helps you process through how you're feeling. Yeah. I mean, if you find yourself getting caught in the anxiety loop um or flooded with overwhelming emotions, or you feel like you're on this like hyper-vigilance, constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know, like um, which might actually feel like just counting all the bad things that are happening, right? Like listing them out. Um, or you feel really disassociated. And I know I've shared, like, sometimes I am really disassociated physically with my physical sensations. So, like you have helped me to understand, like, Jen, that's anxiety, like what's happening with your physical body. And you're noticing before me what's going on with my physical body, and I'm not noticing until it has to scream at me. Um, so that's a level of disassociation with my physical presence, um, disassociating with your emotional uh self. And that's like a technique, it's a coping skill that can be healthy. It's just whether or not you're choosing to deploy it. But if you constantly feel like you're walking around like disassociated, hyper-vigilant. Um, and I think sometimes the thing for me is that like a lot of these types of things overlap with other mental health um, you know, topics like ADHD or um OCD, or, and we've talked about some of those things in the past, and those are very real. Um, but sometimes it can be confusing because you think, oh, like there's something, there's something that I need to fix or adjust. And really we're just like really leaning hard into these coping skills that aren't serving us in the moment. And so um, it's just another avenue to explore as you're thinking about how do I live a happier, uh, more productive life. Now, I will say I'm not a therapist, I'm not licensed, like this is all just the the uh personal experience and the research that we have done and the life that we live that we share. Um, but just something to think about.

SPEAKER_05 15:00

Yeah, I love how you talked about like the loops we can get into and um the coping mechanisms because I do like personally me setting my emotions aside to deal with whatever is in front of me is something that I have always done really, really well. And I think now that we are in this world and this climate that we are, it happens much more. And I am ha I have found myself in many more situations texting you like, I am feeling overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I'm gonna read it that way the next time.

SPEAKER_05 15:41

Yeah, I mean, really, that's all I should just feeling overwhelmed, just thought you should know.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

I um, you know, stress does pull us out of the present. It um and so when I think about like this, I I said, gosh, I I remember when we worked together, there was this specific moment that I had shared with one of our coworkers um that what I really wanted to focus on for the for the upcoming year was dancing in the rain, like being able to be present in the moment and not miss out and enjoy it. And um, it's something that I have been working on for so many years that I still often have trouble with because a lot of times I'm focused on where I'm going and what's gonna happen. But then I show up at vacation and I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, I only have a week and I'm like already sad about having to leave versus being able to be in the moment and enjoy. And I and I know that that is like stealing from my happiness. And yet it's so hard to pull myself out of that. Um, and so we know that stress pulls us out of the present. Um, we know that when we're stressed, our brain prioritizes like threat detection. And um, like when you're in that, your body stores up all this tension, your um emotional reactivity increases so that we say things like high strung or you know, like um it's like a tension on a string pulled really tight, and you're just ready to snap at any moment.

SPEAKER_05 17:11

Any moment.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

And when you're in that state, like your brain is actually funneling everything towards the amygdala instead of towards your higher reasoning portion of your brain. Um, both are not working in tandem. So your sympathetic nervous system is kicked in because it feels like it needs to protect you. Um, and unfortunately, so many um things that we have in our lives today and and the way that we can get caught up in the culture here in America of how we live our lives like pings that um stress so that we're constantly in like stress mode.

SPEAKER_05 17:52

Well, and I think one of the important things to remember when that part of the brain is activated, it is actually pulling resources and capabilities, if you will, from those parts of reason to put them into the self-survival, like we we gotta, we gotta make sure they run fast enough. We gotta make sure that they can they have the ability to fight. Like, so they're it's re-uh distributing all of that um those resources into those things. And so it makes it harder to reason and it makes it hard, like when you know that you need to make a decision and you're like, oh, I just can't make this decision right now, like it is okay to like defer it. Like is to ask, can we just press pause for a minute?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Well, and like I've talked about um like the physical journey that then your body goes on, like your your body, your brain is sending all these signals into your body to say, okay, let's increase the heart rate, let's increase the blood pressure, let's um increase the the breathing that's happening because we're gonna need more oxygen in order to be able to respond to what's going on. And then we take those resources away from things like your digestion, um, because it's basically saying, let's put all of our energy and our focus towards the short term so that you can either run away or fight. Um, and and that's okay when we need that. But when it's happening and we don't need it, we're stealing resources that help us live kind of that happy, um, long, productive, peaceful life.

SPEAKER_05 19:30

So um why is it- It removes us from the ground, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

It does. And and we all know once I get one rung up on the stepladder, that's when I start to get real nervous. Um, and so it does kind of keep you in that cycle because you feel really uncomfortable when you're not grounded. And then like that just feeds more of the stress. So why do some people struggle more with grounding than others?

SPEAKER_05 19:56

I mean, I think like I was saying, uh depending on the situations that you are in, you you get more comfortable. So where I was talking about, I feel many a times I have to put my emotions aside so that I can focus on the the things that I have to deal with. Um, you know, sometimes you defer things and you may not, you may not give that opportunity to really come back and and fix that. And if you're like me, you start to keep a list of all of the things. And so when you go back, you're like, oh ah, and all of a sudden you're like stressed and you're feeling overwhelmed and like we've talked about it, though all of that stuff can like lead to burnout. And then that feels like we've we've pushed ourselves too far. And then I'm mad at myself for having done that to myself. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

And then you're not being kind to yourself, and that just escalates it. Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, there are things that absolutely make it harder to um to to struggle with feeling grounded. So chronic stress is absolutely one of those things, like we've talked about. Um, trauma, if you've experienced trauma, um, and there are all kinds of things that can be traumatic. Um, but if you have trauma that you haven't been able to work through, that's something that like can can show up in many places in your life. Yeah, and it can really contribute to this struggle with being grounded, um, unpredictability through your childhood, so that you know, you're constantly in this fight or flight because you don't really know what to expect. Burnout, like we talked about. Um, having ADHD can be something that actually uh makes it harder to struggle or or to um makes it harder to practice grounding or to be connected with being grounded. Um Chris, people pleasing.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

How dare you? Why are you coming for me like this?

SPEAKER_02 21:52

I mean, this is something we've both talked about that um, you know, is is something that you know we We have really worked hard on acknowledging and trying to move away from. And yet it feels so good. So sometimes when you're tired, you just want to go back to it. But when you are constantly people pleasing, like that, how can you be grounded when you're constantly at the whim of somebody else's feelings? Um constant productivity culture, this like feeling of I have to be on all the time. I have to respond all of the time. I have to be enough all of the time. And once I once I reach the level, this is so gen. Once I reach that level that I was jumping for, I'm disappointed that I haven't gotten farther and there's a new marker. It's like, hey, I want to go to the moon one day. Well, I only went to the moon. I mean, right, you know.

SPEAKER_05 22:47

You look back at it and you it's like that overachieving that we've talked about before.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, when it's it's never enough. It's never enough. And you have to be able to acknowledge that. But that um kind of cycle absolutely pulls you away from being grounded. Um, and you know, goes without saying social media overstimulation. And guys, we're not saying social media is the enemy or any of that kind of stuff. But um, like when we give it too much priority, attention, time, uh, or doom scrolling, um, it is really hard to be grounded um because that's that's pulling you away from from that.

SPEAKER_05 23:27

So Well, I think you and I even had a conversation once about how um being mindful of even when you are um like exposing yourself to things because if you already know you're going into a stressful situation, if you already know it's gonna be like a rough day or something, like set yourself up for success and maybe maybe not. Maybe don't do doom scrolling that day.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

And like right now, I'm on a bit of a hiatus, um, which is you know, I keep going, I keep looking for the apps on my phone. So I know I haven't spent long enough away. And um, I keep feeling like, oh, I'm missing out, and so I know I haven't spent long enough away, and not because I'm like departing. And um, don't worry, I didn't do any crazy post to say, I'm gonna be going away. Um, but um just kind of taking a break to reset my habits because I feel like that impulse um got harder and harder to, you know, uh be in charge of. And so I was just getting presented with all kinds of information that actually was not feeding me joy. It was like making me more stressed. And after reading yet another article of information that came to me that I never would have found um or been looking at or thinking about in any other way and going, I feel worse. Like, why do I keep showing up here?

SPEAKER_04 24:50

Doing this to myself.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

I need to reset my algorithms somehow, but I probably need a break.

SPEAKER_05 24:56

But you know what's so interesting about that? Even you saying like you go onto your phone searching for them. I remember a coworker telling me that when they go on vacation, they purposefully move like their work apps to a different place because our muscle memory just automatically takes us back there. So when our brains enter this space of like um um, I don't want to say unproductive, but kind of like in this potential zoning out space, our our instinct is to then go and find something to stimulate us. And so whether that's our social media, whether it's going and looking at our emails, like whatever it may be, and it's just fascinating that you can make this decision, like, hey, I want to take this step away to allow myself this break. Yet when you are likely unconsciously um uh moving through your day, you're picking up your phone looking for these apps that that you had made the conscious decision we're not gonna look at.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yeah, no, hot take. You can delete apps and then re-download them later. It's like it makes zero impact. Um it doesn't screw up anything. I'm not saying delete your account. I'm not saying make a post about how you're I mean, if you're supposed to be working, maybe you know, don't just like delete your work email. Um that could lead to negative repercussions. So if you're um if you're planning on abstaining from working, like make sure that you've worked that out with work. But um, you know, yeah, it's you can delete apps and then re-download them and like nothing bad is gonna happen. So um trust me, they want you back. Um, because then the social media apps start emailing me and I'm like, okay, how did you why are you coming for me like this? Um, but you know, I picked up my ball of yarn and started knitting something again, you know, like just doing something a little bit different. Um and sometimes you just need to change a pace.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Um I I think it's really important to note that grounding is not just like thinking positive, it's physiological, like it's it's your body. Your breathing changes your heart rate. So when you breathe faster, your heart rate goes faster. When you breathe slower, your heart rate slows down. Um, if you didn't know this, you actually can slow your heart rate by slowing your breathing down. Um, sensory inputs affect regulation. And so um, if you are um maybe go take a hot shower or you know, do something that gives you like a calming sensory input and that can help you calm. Um, it can also help you be aware of where you are in the present moment versus like thinking about the future. Um movement changes your stress hormones. I love that one. I'm constantly in motion. Um, but movement in a uh productive way. So like I love going for a walk. Um, and I don't love walking on the treadmill. I love going for a walk outside because you get it hits more than just you know, that physical sensation of touch and walking.

SPEAKER_05 28:05

Like it's a sensory as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah. Um, you're outside, you get the hot sun on your head if you're here in Texas. You get the um cool air across your face. You get, you know, the smell of the outside, all of those things. So um I think that's a big reason why they say spending time in nature is a good way to ground yourself. So because it's like a sensory experience. Um, and for me, that doesn't mean camping. It means like maybe going on a little bit of a hike. Um and then physical touching, um, calming stimuli to regulate the nervous system. So there's like a lot of fidget tools and like some of those sensory things I find to be overstimulating.

SPEAKER_05 28:52

Correct. I can't use them because I I then all of my focus goes to that. Like, am I using it the best I should be? Is it am I spinning it correctly? Is it supposed to make this much noise?

SPEAKER_02 29:05

I don't think that works for you. So, but um, but you know, different things for different people, right? Um and and like the science behind this, your parasympathetic nervous system uh does that like rest and digest uh sort of energy like like activity for the body. So calms the body after stress, manages your essential unconscious functions. It operates in opposition to the sympathetic nervous system, that fight or flight, um, and it conserves energy and promotes digestion and maintains that internal balance. And so I think it's good to make sure that we're giving ourselves like we're actively seeking out how to engage the parasympathetic nervous system.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

Yeah. And I think that's where a lot of these like grounding exercises are meant to move us back into because again, it's pulling that energy out of that fight or flight um space and into the uh more healthy, um uh moderate space.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

And you know, I think there's no judgment in like getting caught up in being ungrounded. It's just a thing that naturally happens.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

Because our brains have no control.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

Yeah, our brains actually can't distinguish between real immediate threats and like social rejection or online conflict or anticipatory anxiety. And so, um, because they the the brain starts feeding your body physically in the same ways for all of those things, it's like got you ready to get up and run. And there is just an online battle that's going on. And so people are like start being keyboard warriors and saying things that they're reacting in a way that they probably would regret later, hopefully.

SPEAKER_05 30:58

So the anticipatory anxiety, I don't think I've ever I don't think I've heard it like put that way before, but is that like the Sunday scaries?

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Like um, yeah, the Sunday scaries, the um, you know, uh the example I keep thinking of is like we're getting ready to go to some big festival or event, like when we were going to Pride Calso, and I am like thinking about um being there and there being all of these people and feeling overwhelmed and like not ever having been there before, and so not knowing what the layout looks like, and I can't really think through to calm myself of how I'm gonna navigate situations. And um, and so I'm getting really anxious because I'm anticipating what's going to happen. I'm not anxious because of what is happening. I'm anxious because I'm afraid of what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_05 31:51

Um going back to that day, because I remember we were in the car, um, and I I remember saying, This is like I'm like, I think you're anxious.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

I feel hot, my my stomach hurts, my um, I feel dizzy, I have a headache.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

And so at that point, like whenever I said that, like, did it do anything in that moment for you as far like besides like awareness? Like, did you do any breathing exercises?

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Did you, or was it just like an aha moment of this is the this is something I'm I think it definitely was an aha moment of like you because what you said is I hear you say this same thing whenever you get anxious. So you were able to kind of take me back to le the outcome of past situations where this has like been a lead up. And I think sometimes it's confusing because some of the same same um like physical sensations can happen for different reasons.

SPEAKER_05 32:58

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

But like in that moment, I, as smart as I am, was not putting it all together. And I'm also thinking like I shouldn't be nervous about this, I shouldn't be anxious about this. That's part of that, like being kind to yourself, just allowing yourself to have the feelings instead of judging yourself for having them. And um, and so you saying that to me, um, I think because you're allowed to say those things to me because of our relationship. Yeah. And because I trust you and I know that you're, you know, I'm not gonna respond in a way that's like um, you know, like threat response because it doesn't feel threatening. Um like it kind of pulled me back into the moment, actually. I think that was a part of a physical grounding for me. It was like reminding me back in the present of where I am instead of where I was, which was in the future, worrying about all of the things that were going to happen and then why am I feeling this way and what's wrong with me? And so you had to name it to tame it, and there's a little bit of that going on. Um, but I think it that moment has stuck with me so much because it it was like that very obvious but overlooked connection of what is actually going on.

SPEAKER_05 34:11

And you were stressed about how the people and not having gone. And meanwhile, the thing that turned out to be the biggest obstacle was getting the twin stood up.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Oh my gosh. That was wild. We we really struggled with that. That was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Give us microphones and we can talk. Give us a tent and with the instructions, by the way, the step-by-step instructions. And we struggled.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

We're so lost without our producer. Ace is just he's he's the We could not do it without him. He's the best tool to have in my pocket all the time.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Everyone needs an ace. He's he's amazing and magical and wonderful. And we are always grateful. Um, we did get that tent up by ourselves. No, did Ace have to come back?

SPEAKER_05 34:59

No, the folks across from us um came over and helped and they said quote unquote by ourselves. Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

We kept looking at it going, something is not something is not right here. It was like an easy pop-up situation. It was not.

SPEAKER_05 35:14

Um Easy is open for interpretation, I would just say.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

How many how many Chris and Jens does it take? Um, yeah. So um so that's an anticipatory anxiety. Um, you know, like just our modern life, the things that we get caught in, it keeps us in this like mildly dysregulated uh space constantly. You know what I'm talking about, right? Like you can relate to it.

SPEAKER_05 35:49

Uh to the subway, like you the amount of people you could run into, the interactions that could like it's not a far walk from my front door to our subway entrance, but like you can make or break a day in that walk.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

In that walk, yeah. Well, probably doesn't help that we're constantly feeding ourselves caffeine and other things to like manage through, and then that makes you even more high strong and jumpy and but I would even argue like we don't we I don't think we use those things to manage through.

SPEAKER_05 36:18

I think we use those things to push through. To push through or to like because I do think some of the interesting things um like around um signs that you may be ungrounded are some of those, like you may feel tired, you may feel um like your emotions are o overreacting. And so sometimes people like okay, I'm tired. I'm gonna go like it intake a lot of coffee or energy drinks to to put to get me through this.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Um, or like inability to focus could be a sign of ADHD, could be a sign you're ungrounded. Maybe it's both, who knows? Um, irritability, um, could be a sign you have PMS, could be a could be a sign you're ungrounded.

SPEAKER_05 37:05

You know what's so funny about that though? Like irritability for me, I I do not find myself irritated like a lot, like to the point of like where I'm frustrated or whatever. I think so. Whenever I do start to feel that, I really do have to start doing like a checklist of yeah, okay, what's causing this and like how much of it is is within our control because the call may be coming from within the house.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

It may be the call maybe ring ring, hello, Chris, it's Chris.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

Yeah, exactly.

unknown 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Yeah. Um, numbness. Um, sometimes that's um like a sensation that you are, you know, not present physically within your body. You feel numb. Um, so like doom scrolling, if you just find yourself doom scrolling, why are you doing that? Um I mean, not just scrolling, but like if you're doom scrolling, why are you doing that? Um maybe it's because you're trying to disconnect. Um feeling detached from your body, feeling like you're rushing constantly, um, feeling panicked after tiny little things that, you know, objectively you shouldn't feel panicked about, but you do. Um snapping at people, becoming that snapping turtle. Um, like, have you done that before where you like snap at somebody and then you're like, I'm sorry. I like that was I shouldn't have snapped at you. And then you have to kind of reflect and go, why am I doing this? Um, could be something else, but it could be that, you know, you're not grounded. So you're like, um if you're not grounded, you are dysregulated.

SPEAKER_05 38:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Um feeling floaty or disconnected. So sometimes it's like the snappy, cranky, crabby, irritable. And sometimes it's just the disconnected or the, you know, um, like that's the fight or flight, right? The fight is like snappy, and then and then then the flight is like just, you know, ignoring, shoving it under the rug, um, making it disappear, uh, pretending like it doesn't bother you when it really does. And you may not be aware that you're pretending, but sometimes you are. You're just shoving it down.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

Right. I also think of it as like um sometimes when you're like, I'm I I'm just not gonna deal with this now. Like to me, flight is sometimes those things of like, nope, I don't want to deal with this today. I'm gonna go over here and do this.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

And just gonna close the door and walk away.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

Right, exactly. And I I think m sometimes that that's okay to do, but I think the if you're not going back and and truly giving it the time and attention it needs, that's when it can become a a little bit of a um a ball of wax that you have to then work through.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Yeah, absolutely. Um so Chris, what do we do? How do we if if we're bought in the grounding is a healthy practice that we can deploy when we're either feeling numb or we're feeling anxious, um, what do we do? How do we do it?

SPEAKER_05 40:08

I go to my favorite podcasting platform and look up Chris and Jen in the morning and listen to this episode.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Um I think there are several like ways that you can seek to be grounded. You can be you can seek to be grounded through like physical grounding, um, through mental grounding, through emotional grounding, and through lifestyle grounding is kind of the four ways that I would group them. So what some of the physical ways, and and I I like these because they uh I tend to be disconnected from my physical body. So then my body gets really loud before I start to pay attention, like in the car in that moment where I'm like everything is falling apart. I I've been ignoring it for too long. Um and so um, like you said, do I take off my shoes and go outside and stand on the ground? Like maybe. Um, if you're like me, I don't want dirt on my feet, but um, put your feet flat on the floor and that helps physically to ground you. You start to feel the floor touching your feet. Um, cold water, like your rain experience.

SPEAKER_05 41:18

Yeah, exactly. I think another interesting one um is around like this idea of holding ice, which I see, I've never done I've never done that. Like I've never thought about it to to be as this way to like physically ground myself before. Um, but I am gonna try it next time. I'm I'm needing that because it does make sense, right? It's a shape, it's it's uh a texture. Like there's so many different pieces to it that it's engaging a lot of your sensories.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

And so also when I get stressed, my hands, my palms get really hot. So like it's a way to uh to alleviate that feeling too. Um sometimes it's putting ice like on my chest, um, because my chest feels like anxious. I don't know. I don't know how else to describe it. That's that's really descriptive, isn't it? My chest feels anxious.

SPEAKER_05 42:08

Well done. Well done. No, but like maybe tight or maybe you do feel like warm. Like it could be a the physical sensation of it feels panic.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Um I don't know. And so giving it some other physical sensation to tap into instead of that emotional sensation that I'm having there um helps to kind of pull you back into the moment.

SPEAKER_05 42:28

Um I also think like weighted blankets are interesting, especially when we attach that to like this idea of um not being able to sleep well because of because of your racing or thoughts. So that's act now. I get why weighted blankets are a thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Well, and sometimes I'll just pull the little dog Lola. Um, she's about 45 pounds, but really compact, small. The Chloe the husky will not allow me to put her on my chest and hold her. But Lola will. Um, and so sometimes I'll just pull her off of her sleeping spot next to me and onto me. And she doesn't stay for terribly long. So that's good for me because I'll get antsy. But having the weight of her just lay against my chest and she's just like totally relaxed and um like we're she we're co-regulating together. Yeah. Um, you know, sometimes that that weight feeling um it helps to calm me down. Um stretching, downward dog.

SPEAKER_05 43:30

We were just talking about downward dogs. We were getting warmed up, and um who knew we were joking, but it's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Um pressure, like sometimes I will find a pressure point in my hand, like right here, or um, you know, and and press, um, because that deep pressure kind of takes you back into this moment. Um walking, um, touching textured objects. We talked about that. That's like not my favorite. Progressive muscle relaxation. And this one, like I roll my eyes because my therapist tells me to do this. And it just requires so much patience. It requires you to be in the moment, which feels uncomfortable. But that's probably like why I should be doing it. But like it's where you like actually think, okay, I'm going to relax my shoulders and then I'm going to move down. And like you just go through your whole body. And if your legs feel really tight, you know, okay, I'm going to relax my quads. And then I'm going to relax, you know, my calves and I'm going to relax my toes. And you feel the energy going away, um, like that tension going away. And then as soon as I stop, I just tense back up again. But I think I'm not doing it right now.

SPEAKER_05 44:43

Go through the exercise, and then all of a sudden I'm right back where I started.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Probably need some more work on that one. Um, but it is a like a real technique that some people do better than me. Um and there's also like breathing, like long exhale um activates the calming system. So um, you know, if you notice somebody sighing a lot, you know, they don't even know it, but they're like grounding themselves. Um, you know, so it's a good, it's a good way to to physically get yourself grounded.

SPEAKER_05 45:17

Maybe that's also has to do with like co the co-regulation as well, especially if you're in office with people or in a in a compact space and you do hear people like sighing like that. Because I do notice whenever I'm in a space where there's more people, if someone does that a few times, others will start to do it as well.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

That's so funny. Um that's funny.

SPEAKER_05 45:42

A little social experiment I'll have to start doing.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

So those are like physical ways to ground yourself. If um you're looking for mental grounding, there's one I actually really, really like. It's called the 54321 method, and it involves all of your senses. So I'd say it's mental, but it's also like physical. Um so um it's name five things you can see, then four things you can hear, then three things you can feel, then two things you can smell, and one thing you can taste. And um it takes you out of, you know, the the doom thinking.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

And it takes you back in, or the panic or the escalation, like it basically stops the fight or flight and takes you back into the other area of your brain. So it's like physically switching which part of your brain is active to calm everything down and get those uh like physical um like activations that your brain is sending your body to calm down.

SPEAKER_05 46:47

So it's all about like getting yourself back into that mo into the moment, right? And so you're you're identifying things you're seeing right now, things you're hearing right now, things you're feelings. I had not heard of this until uh you shared some things on it. And I actually am looking forward to trying this the next time I find myself in this situation because uh I don't it sounds super interesting. I'm I want to see how it actually maybe like pop a mint in.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Otherwise you might be going, one thing I can taste, my bad breath. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 47:20

Like Well, so one of the things that it did say was like the the coff the coffee that you had or the last thing that you had, like the last thing you ate. Like sometimes it's just like the checking in on the sensation that you that you're having.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

And the point is not to get the right answers. It doesn't matter what you're saying, and it's not a test. It's just a a way to get yourself to start acknowledging what's around you. Um, you can if you can also just start with like five things you see. If all of it feels overwhelming, then just name five things you see. Um we all practice this playing I spy in the car as children, right? Um, orienting to your environment, which is the same as like naming five things you see. Um labeling your emotions. Um, that's a way to mentally ground. So um maybe you need a friend like Chris to help you label your emotions because you're going, Am I dying physically? Do I need to go to the hospital? And Chris is like, no, you're stressed.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

Um I show up for you in all the best ways.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

You really do. You really do. Um asking, what is actually happening right now? Well, this is this is a really good one. Maybe like write this down on a note card and put it in your purse or something. Ask, am I safe in this moment? Because that gets your brain to like flip and go, wait a second, let me use my critical thinking skills to determine if I'm safe in this moment, versus letting my, you know, amygdala tell me that I need to fight or flight. Um, so that's a good way to switch back.

SPEAKER_05 48:57

Right. Because again, our brains cannot fully distinguish between real immediate threats and things like social rejection or uh a message that like we didn't like the way that it hit us. Or someone left us on red.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Where are my keyboard warriors at? Where are they at? The next time that you feel like you want to just type something in, um just ask yourself first. Am I safe in this moment? And then if you think through that and then you still want to respond or type it, or you know, whatever you're gonna do, um, like go for it. But I think this is where people just get really like reactive online, and then they show up later and they're a bit embarrassed by maybe what they said or did, or it wasn't helpful, or it devolved, or, you know, um we it triggered somebody else, and then we're in this escalating situation.

SPEAKER_05 49:54

So um I do think this one is interesting in the idea of um like being mindful of like that future impact and how like how you're showing up in this moment could how it could potentially impact the future. So I think it's can be a little bit of a slippery slope in trying to like get grounded back into this moment. But I do think asking that question, am I safe in this moment?

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Well, yeah, that's my point. It's like not to take you down the path of like the few, but like to just go, wait a second, am I safe in this moment? Yes, I am safe. No one is coming out of the computer to harm me. So now that I have reminded myself I am safe, like dip my shoulders, come down from my ears a little bit. Do I feel like my breathing has started to slow down? Am I a little less like am I maybe gonna push the caps lock off and not respond in all caps to the message? Um it's a good, it's a good, like I just would encourage you, Chris, to as you go through the week, um, like ask this question when you feel triggered at work. Um, and I'll do the same. Because you know it happens, happens to everybody. Um and then go, okay, wait, am I safe in this moment? Yes, I am. So let me respond. Um, and see how it changes the way that you like it may not change what you say. It may change the way you feel as you're saying it.

SPEAKER_05 51:19

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Um, emotional grounding. So let's talk about that. How do you emotionally ground?

SPEAKER_05 51:26

I think this is something that we actually talk a lot about on the show, but also how you and I show up for one another a lot. So practicing that self-compassion, like understanding, you know, some we may be experiencing these things because they are out of our control. Our brains are just doing what our brains are meant to be doing. So take a breath. It's okay. Don't get upset that you are feeling and reacting in these ways. We do have a little bit more control than we think we do. Um, talking to someone safe. So I know like you and I do that for each other a lot, um, whether it be via text message or phone call or FaceTime or showing up and recording a podcast together.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Um don't leave you on read.

SPEAKER_05 52:09

You do not.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

You do not.

SPEAKER_05 52:11

And I try not to for you either, but apparently I I have I I sometimes do. Do we so sorry about that? Well, you like sent a lot of like great photos, and I don't know, maybe it was because I was like napping or something and I just felt like it took me a while to respond.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Ace responded later. He's like, why do I have 30 messages? I'm like, why do I have how many? I have 135. We are way down from the 190 something that it was, so I feel good about that.

SPEAKER_05 52:40

Well, I'm glad that you feel good about where your numbers are, your text message numbers.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Feel good about it.

SPEAKER_05 52:46

Um journaling. Yeah, that's your favorite one, right? Like you are loved to to be told that to journal.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

It's helpful. Um we'll call it, I don't know, um prompted writing. Um, creative writing, um, slowing down before reacting. Yeah, always good ways to ground yourself emotionally. Um a lot of what we talk about in other episodes is about emotionally grounding ourselves. Um, what about lifestyle grounding? Like what does that mean?

SPEAKER_05 53:24

Um, so to me, this is like how we move through our lives, making sure that we're setting ourselves up for best case scenarios, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:33

This is like the proactive part of living our life in a way that supports being grounded instead of being dysregulated.

SPEAKER_05 53:41

Exactly. So again, these are this does not promise that you are going to stay in this like idyllic state, but it is things that like if you can put these things into practice and and hold to them, it it helps you better um uh balance maybe as you come into these situations. So a few things is like have a sleep schedule, make sure that you're getting enough sleep. And I know there are all sorts of articles out there that say how many hours of sleep people need, should need. It is actually a very personal thing. So don't like reading. There are so many studies, right? Don't stress about my body. I didn't get my full eight hours. Um, that's everyone doesn't need a full eight hours, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

I'm really glad that you said that. Can I just hot take here? Everyone is like so into these, like the aura ring and the um Apple Watch and the all the other things that can like uh track sleep. And I have an Apple Watch, like I'm you know, um, but there's all these things that track your sleep. The only thing that that does for me is just make me even more stressed out because I feel like I am failing at sleeping. Like so when I'm supposed to be resting, I'm also trying to sleep better. Like sometimes it's just I just need to be doing the things that allow myself to sleep, like getting to bed on time, making a quiet space, all those things.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

But um well, they've done studies recently, and like the aura rings, the Apple Watches, like although been around for a while, the long-term impacts that they actually have on us are still being researched. And um, I want to say it was like maybe last year, there was a study done on um the anxiety that these um tools were giving people who use them.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

As someone who already struggles with effectively managing my level of anxiety, it is additive for me in anxiety, not not additive in calming. Now, uh other people have different experiences, and I think that's great. But my hot take is that um mo like monitoring the quality of your sleep is not always conducive to better sleep. Sometimes it just stresses me out and then makes my sleep even worse. So I decided to forgo it.

SPEAKER_05 56:09

Well, good for you. I'm glad you did that for yourself.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

I did. I did.

SPEAKER_05 56:13

Who else is gonna do it? Like you have to create your own boundaries. Another great episode to go listen to. Um, another thing um around hydration.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Oh, yeah, we did an episode on this. We sure did. Hydration is important. It doesn't just come from water, guys. Like, you can drink all kinds of things and hydrate, including beer if you don't like drink so many that you become dehydrated.

SPEAKER_05 56:35

Um that's a fine balance.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

Or a cup of coffee counts towards your liquid intake um for hydration, but being appropriately hydrated is really important, and we're pretty bad at that here in America. We don't eat a lot of broth-based foods super often. You think it like in some other cultures, they do that quite a bit, and it adds to hydration, and we just don't, and we go around like not drinking a whole lot and you know, making ourselves sweat and you know, do all kinds of crazy things, and then we're just thirsty.

SPEAKER_05 57:10

Right, not replenishing our our fluids. Very important.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Over stimulation awareness.

SPEAKER_05 57:17

This is the thing that like you called me out on, not in a bad, like not in a how could you how could you have done this? But you you did it, you you were just like, oh, well, maybe we already knew this was gonna be a tough day. Like, why why did you do that? Maybe we don't do that. And I was like, Yeah, mm-hmm. Well, now in reflecting in this moment, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 57:40

That does seem practical. It does. Um, but I didn't connect that in a timely manner. So like I think that's a whole thing is being proactive about thinking ahead about how do we set ourselves up for success. So um, you know, like use the do not disturb function on your phone um so that you don't start your day like getting pinged before you're ready or end your day getting pinged because you have to respond to them. Like give yourself permission to do those things. Um, social media moderation, we talked about this one already. Boundaries, having good boundaries, they are very important and support a regulated lifestyle. Um, we have a whole couple of episodes on that. Um being outside, spending time in nature. I love to go take pictures of the birds because it keeps me distracted from. I mean, I sent you pictures of bugs yesterday. Can you believe that?

SPEAKER_05 58:36

Uh I loved the ones with the bees. I just finished reading Mad Honey. And so, like getting to see like the bees on the actual flowers. That was so cool.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

That was so cool. And um, somehow behind the lens of the camera, I'm not freaked out by it. Even that wasp, that red paper wasp sent you.

SPEAKER_05 58:53

I was quite shocked whenever I received that one. Yeah. How far were you?

SPEAKER_02 58:56

It was like right there, buzzing by me. And I was like, What is that? And then I was like, Oh, really cool. That looks really cool. I just want to get into it. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 59:10

You you typically wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

Yeah, I guess if I feel like I can see it through the camera, it's not gonna bite me. Sting me. I don't know. I'm also so curious. What does it look like? Um yeah, the bee pictures, like they had like the pollen you could see on their little legs. That was so cool. Um so being outside is a good way to ground yourself to nature. Um human connection, spend time with friends. We had some friends come over Friday night, and I like it was just this week at work was really rough. And um, what I wanted was just to like huddle up by myself in a dark room. And um, we already had plans of friends come over, and so we had them come over, and um, it was like really rejuvenating for me um to like just be that reminder that human connection is actually like can fill you up. Um, and it did, and I'm very appreciative of it.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:08

Yeah, I do want to call out, if especially because we're talking about like lifestyle things that we can incorporate to help um to help set us up for success. There have been recently studies done that talk about uh how we want to hibernate. We want to go into like our safe space and and curl up and hide from the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

And sometimes we do need that. We need to allow ourselves that balance.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:33

Correct. But you also have to go beyond that space and and operate outside because it triggers different parts of your brain and it triggers different parts of like your connectivity. And so whenever the studies that they have done found like people who stay in indoors and like just in their home and aren't really engaging and and going and being like going to a farmer's market or going to the you know, like really engaging.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

Go to your local Costco.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:06

Does that count?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:07

Yes, like it's about like getting out of your immediate space so that you can you can be stimulated in a different way. Um because we crave that, like whether or not we we know it, our brains need it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:24

Yeah, yeah. I think that's um and and I think also knowing like yeah, I say Costco as an example, but the checkout area with the fans going and the lights and the white, it's overstimulation, which my husband knows for me and often sends me to the car. Probably because my antsiness is just uncomfortable. Um, but uh, and because he's so caring. But um, yeah, you you gotta find that human connection in spaces that, you know, don't produce more anxiety for you. So if you're like me in a loud restaurant is something that drains you and not doesn't fill you up, maybe don't go there for your human connection. Like just um, oh, I hope this was helpful in like talking about what it means to be grounded, that it's a skill to build, that it helps to balance out, you know, that dysregulation that we otherwise would constantly be living in, that there are things you can do in the moment to ground yourself, and there are things that you can do ahead of time to help yourself live a more grounded life. Um, and you know, our hope in talking about this is that there's something that you can take away to help you live a happier, more peaceful life that's more fulfilling that you get more out of because we get, you know, just one trip.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Um, and we want to make it the best trip that we can for ourselves. And we want it to be the best trip possible for you guys as well. So we would love to hear from you. We'd love for you to tell us what you do to stay grounded. We'd love for you to share with us like your understanding, um, your experiences. We would love that. We'd love to hear from you. So drop a comment um wherever you're listening, send us an email at connect at Chris and JenITm.com or text us at 940-278-8129.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:22

Yeah. And, you know, we're here building a community. Like Jen said, we are not therapists, we are not licensed, we are not certified, like we are just living life and um trying to enjoy it at the the best ways that we can. Um, and so we would love for you to go on that journey with us. We're building that community. So please follow us on social media. We're on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. You can find us um as Chris and GenITM. ITM stands for in the morning. Um, so uh feel free to like, follow, subscribe, share, comment, all of the things we would love for you to be um part of this community and um help help share and and you know let's let's support one another.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Let's do it. And until next time, remember to be kind to yourself, to one another, and make it a great week. Bye, everyone. Bye.