Chiropractic Care is Self Care: Myths, Truths, and Wellness Tips

 In this episode of Chris and Jen in the Morning, hosts Chris and Jen dive deep into the vital role holistic healthcare plays in your personal self-care journey. Joining the show is professional chiropractor Dr. Wim Devos from Southlake Chiropractic. Together, they unpack how the body's musculoskeletal system is completely interconnected and bust the most common misconceptions surrounding chiropractic adjustments. From understanding the educational path of a licensed chiropractor to exploring the highly effective nature of trigger point therapy, this episode offers a refreshing look at how to stop tolerating daily discomfort and start actively healing.

Three Pivotal Points:

• The Reality of Chiropractic Education: Dr. Devos clarifies that becoming a chiropractor requires a rigorous, full-time four-year doctorate program preceded by two years of undergraduate studies. The foundational medical training mirrors that of an MD—covering anatomy, physiology, and embryology—before specializing heavily in musculoskeletal adjustments.
• The Power of Trigger Point Therapy: The episode highlights how localized muscular buildup, such as lactic acid, starves muscles of blood flow and causes referred pain like tension headaches or eye twitching. Dr. Devos shares how his unique background practicing in Belgium forced him to master manual trigger point therapy, a highly effective technique he continues to use alongside traditional adjustments to keep muscles relaxed.
• Individualized, No-Nonsense Care: True chiropractic care should focus on the patient's immediate relief rather than long-term financial commitments. Dr. Devos discusses his philosophy of providing individualized care that prioritizes immediate, same-day adjustments during the first exam, typically resulting in short treatment plans of just three to five total visits for standard care.

Website - www.chrisandjenitm.com

Email - connect@chrisandjenitm.com   

Voicemail and Text available at 940-278-8129

Merch - https://chris-and-jen-itm.printify.me/

Store - https://www.fabulousfavoritefinds.com/

Chapters

00:00 Gratitude Moments and Community Connections

08:12 Introducing Dr. Wim DeVos and Chiropractic Care

09:39 Wim's Journey to Chiropractic and Education

21:34 Understanding the Chiropractic Experience

26:17 Busting Myths About Chiropractic Care

30:45 The Importance of Choosing Healthcare Providers Wisely

33:35 Understanding Chiropractic Care and Its Misconceptions

43:59 The Connection Between Stress, Mental Health, and Physical Well-being

51:06 Navigating Remote Work and Its Impact on Physical Health

57:18 Setting Boundaries for Better Health and Well-being

01:08:56 Water Workouts and Joint Health

01:10:15 Navigating Chiropractic Care Wisely

01:15:37 The Importance of Mental Wellness

01:19:26 Preventative vs. Reactive Chiropractic Care

01:21:27 Holistic Health and Mindful Living

01:26:47 Outro

 resources

Southlake Chiropractic - https://southlakechiropractic.com

Cancer Care - https://cancercare.org

Rhodiola and Ashwagandha Supplements - https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/rhodiola-ashwagandha

The Benefits of Swimming for Joint Health - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=example

Meditation Techniques for Stress Relief - https://www.headspace.com/meditation

Healthy Boundaries at Work and Life - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-moment-youth/201911/the-importance-boundaries

The Science of Fascia and Its Role in Health - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6682914

 guest links

Website - https://southlakechiropractic.com

LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/wimdevos

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

We live our lives pushing through the noise, ignoring the quiet signals our bodies send us every single day. We accept chronic pain, recurring headaches, and constant fatigue as just another tax we pay for growing older. But what if pain isn't a permanent part of your life journey? What if your body isn't actually broken, but simply disconnected?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We we do believe in chiropractic care, and we have been working um with South Lake Chiropractic for many years now, specifically with Dr. DeVos. So we are super excited and honored that you're here with us. So welcome, Dr. DeVos.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yeah, like literally, you've been a game, like a life changer for me.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Today, Chris and Jen are breaking down the wall between traditional medicine and holistic wellness with help from Dr. Wim DeVos. We are stripping away the myths, exposing the truths about how your nerves, muscle, and spine operate as one complete ecosystem. Discover how true relief might be just a pressure point away. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Welcome to Chris and Jen in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Where self-care meets real life. I'm Chris.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

And I'm Jen. And we are super excited to be here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

So happy. And we have a special guest with us. We're excited to get to intro them in a couple of minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

We do. We've got Dr. Wim DeVos here today with us from South Lake Chiropractic. So super excited to um talk with him today and talk about self-care and um and how he is a big part of our self-care journey. But before we get to that, we have some gratitude.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Right. We always ground ourselves at the beginning of our episodes in gratitude. And I'm going to kick us off. I had um a great opportunity this last week to attend um an organization's um uh special moment, if you will. It's Cancer Care. Um, and they hosted a festival of hope gala in uh New Jersey this week that I was able to attend. And um it's one of those events that like it really just stays with you afterwards. Um the evening brought together survivors, caregivers, um, healthcare professionals.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Um, truly the community that comes and supports anyone who gets uh a cancer diagnosis. Um, and really it all centered around one mission of making sure that nobody faces cancer alone. And um uh cancer care actually provides free emotional, practical, and financial support to people who are impacted by cancer. And they like counseling support, support groups, um, educational resources. They do so much. And it was just awesome to be in a room of people who like run the spectrum of um what type of support they bring to the cancer community. Um, so you know, I I want to give a shout out to them. If you are interested in learning more, you can check them out at cancercare.org. Um, truly a a great organization and one that I am I've considered myself very fortunate to have gotten to go to this event and um just hear the stories and meet people. Um, so a huge shout out to them and the work that they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

That's awesome. I and we haven't even had a chance to catch up this week. So I can't wait to hear all about that. But this must be why you wore a jacket into the office this week.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

And made everyone think you were job hunting. I mean, it's good to keep them on the edge just a little, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Keep them on their toes.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Just keep them on their toes. Um, well, I love that. That's amazing. We both have have been had family members touched by cancer and um on that journey. And uh, you know, it's the cancer ward is a lonely place. So um super grateful for that. Um, my gratitude moment this morning comes from my backyard. Uh, I know I talk a lot about how I enjoy um the birds, and um, we talked last week actually about grounding and um how to ground yourself in the present in nature. And so here I was in my backyard in the middle of my suburb city life. Um but um I got to see three different kinds of uh herons in uh in the retention area next to my house um this this week in the morning before I started work. And um, like it's just such a gift when they stop by and uh, you know, like pause and let me take a picture of them and then I can go look them up and figure out what kind of bird they are if I don't recognize them. But um I just am super grateful for those little moments of joy to lift me up in the morning before I get into like what is sometimes a long day of work. Um, and it just kind of grounds me back in the present of where I am today instead of all of the crazy that I'm thinking about might uh, you know, unfold. Um so just uh uh grateful for those little moments right in my backyard.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Like you took pictures. I mean, it wasn't just the birds, right? Like you also saw squirrels, like at one point you were like, I feel like a Disney princess.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

I mean, I like sat down out there and they all just came out. And I don't like, have you ever heard a squirrel talk? Because for like over five minutes, the squirrel was just going on and on, chittering and chittering and chittering. Um, like I'm not exaggerating. I sent you a video. Um, but like all kinds of I don't know what he was trying to tell me, but he was definitely talking to me.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Lots to share.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

And then I went out later and saw that the dog, one of the dogs, had chased the squirrel up into the top of the gazebo. So I made them come inside because he was like literally shaking in terror. So he better not make his way into my attic as a favor.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Um, I uh maybe what he was trying to tell you is stories about your dogs and uh how you know they generally are very nice.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

They're I am uh I I am super excited to talk about um Dr. DeVos and have him here today with us. I know he's definitely a part of our community. Um, and we also are really excited to have all of you as a part of our community. So um just before we get started, a quick reminder that Chris and I started this podcast because we are a community of people who um, you know, are coming together to support each other and figure out how to find joy and happiness as we go through this journey called life. So um follow, subscribe. Um, we're on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram. Um, we would love to have you join a part of our community and uh join in on the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Are you tired of being told that your chronic back pain, stubborn migraines, or constant dizziness are just things you have to accept? Traditional medicine often gets so hyper-focused on just one joint that it loses sight of your body's big picture. At South Lake Chiropractic, Dr. Wim Devos does things differently. With over three decades of experience, Dr. DeVos doesn't trap you in endless rigid treatment plans. He combines traditional adjustments with highly effective specialized therapy to help you break up deep muscular tension, restore blood flow, or eliminate referred pain right at the source. No long waiting periods and no cruel delays, just individualized care with first day exams and adjustments designed to get you well. Stop surviving the pain and start living again. Schedule your checkup today with Southlake Chiropractic. Call 817-488-8837 or text 817-983-7204. You can also visit us online at SouthLake Chiropractic.com.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Well, we are super excited to have Dr. DeVos with us. He is a chiropractor who practices out of Southlake, Texas. So if you are listening in the area, you may be familiar with him. If not, you're gonna get the opportunity to meet him. Um, and we're super excited to have him here because Jen and I both believe that part of our self-care um uh process cycle, whatever you want to call it, we we do believe in chiropractic care. And we have been working um with South Lake Chiropractic for many years now, specifically with Dr. Tavas. So we are super excited and honored that you're here with us. So welcome, Dr.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah, like literally, you've been a game like a life changer for me. I uh with my back injury before I uh met you, was in chronic pain constantly all of the time, and thought I was just gonna have to accept that as a part of my like life journey. And gosh, I mean, I may be older than you, Chris, but I'm still a little young for that.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, uh hey, I think anyone is young for that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

So I'm super grateful to have found uh someone who is not only just such an amazing person, but also an expert. And um, you know, sometimes like finding a chiropractor is really hard. Um, so we want to talk about that today, too, because it's like not everything is is always equal. Um, but before we get into that, uh, we'd love for you to introduce yourself to us. Um tell us about your name. I've never met anyone else named Wim before.

SPEAKER_05 9:43

Wim? Uh I grew up in Belgium, and so Wim is a Dutch name. There's also a German uh name, Wim, but uh Wim Wenders, I believe, is is a German film producer or so. Um even in Belgium now it's becoming a more rare name, so yeah, definitely different here. Uh De Vos is Dutch for De Fox. So in English, my name would be Bill Fox, which all of a sudden sounds very ordinary.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

He's faxy. He's faxy. And um where did you get your degree? What tell us about your education?

SPEAKER_05 10:22

So growing up in Belgium, my mom fell while I um was about three years old or so when she was pregnant with my sister, and she fell on almost like in the garage, her back started hurting pretty much constantly, uh, kept getting worse, and by happenstance my dad became friends with a chiropractor, and which growing up in the countryside, we had no idea what that was, even a chiropractor. But he started adjusting my mom at his house, and even though specialists, back specialists had said she would end up in a wheelchair, that never happened. She was able to go and and walk and shop and not be in pain afterwards. So as a 10-year-old, I decided that's my future. And that is awesome. At the time, I think there was one college in um England, but it was worth going to school here. You get a you get more a variety of techniques you're taught and all. So that's what brought me to Texas when I was 18. And the plan was never to stay here, but here I am.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Here you are. You stayed. Um and so you went and got your degree specifically in chiropractic.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Um and tell us about that. Like I think a lot of people don't understand that like it's an actual degree path.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

Yeah, so it was like four weekends worth. I know. Um so it's it's a full-on um doctorate. So there's two years before you get into um chiropractic college itself, and then there's a four-year doctorate program. And the beginning years are pretty much the same as an MD would have with all the physiology, anatomy, embryology, all those really fun classes, but towards the end, this is where it diverges, where they go into their more pharmaceutical and surgery, whatever specialties, and uh we learn to adjust and then go more uh musculoskeletal at that point, at the very end.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, it never ceases to surprise me, uh, like how the the different nerves and muscles impact like all of these different areas, and I'll be like, hey, my eye is twitching, and it's like something on the back of my head, and you like do the pressure point, and all of a sudden it's not twitching anymore. Like it's hard to argue with the results, but um it's it's uh so interesting how all of that is so connected together.

SPEAKER_05 13:02

It is the I don't know, it's it's a two-edged sword, I guess, in traditional medicine. It's become so detailed and and specialized that the specialists on on the foot or knee or orthopedic doctors, yeah, they don't even do all external knee specialists oftentimes. They get so good in one section or one body part, which is is good, but they lose track of the connection even of the joints next to it and how that could influence, say, a knee or or other, you know, other joints. So they lose kind of sight of the big picture of the body, I think.

unknown 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

So with that, like within chiropractic care, is there like areas of specialty or is it to to what you were just saying, like you know it all? Like it's because of the impact that like your the entire body has on on all the different pieces and parts?

SPEAKER_05 14:02

Traditionally for the spine, we adjust well, most of it. There's some techniques where they like upper cervical specific where they only adjust the atlas and maybe C2 at the very top of the neck. Um But most of it's just look at the entire spine, see what's out of alignment. But there are some specialties though within chiropractic now, like you have chiropractic neurologists and um diplomats, you know, after graduation or after graduate um courses that you can take. Um there's I believe what else? Like for children and babies, you know, um that type of specialty care.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Um you've even adjusted like dogs before.

SPEAKER_05 14:52

A few over after hours, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Um so there's different kinds of well, I mean, I guess my experience um going to different chiropractors, like there are different uh like experiences that I've had at different chiropractors. They seem to use like different methods to figure out what um is they want to adjust, and then um also like different ways of adjusting. And so how would you describe is that like a is there like are there names for that? Is there like a classification? And how would you describe your style?

SPEAKER_05 15:31

Uh mine is mishmash, I would say, a mix of different techniques. So usually what the word for it is is a technique. So you have, like I mentioned, the upper cervical specific that's focusing solely on the upper neck. There are gonsted, that's a technique, uh practitioners and they only use that technique. Um there is the activator technique, the little instrument that I use it as well, but not solely. Um so some doctors prefer just to focus on one technique and that works for everybody in their mind. I think everybody's too different for that to be the case. So I have my base version, which is probably about two or three different techniques with the drop piece as you're familiar with, uh, for the lower back, especially. And then what's kind of the general traditional technique is diversified. And even within that diversified, there's different ways of adjusting each body part. So over the years I've I've kind of gotten my preferences, but as soon as I notice somebody's either uncomfortable or it they don't respond to this technique, we'll try something else, whatever works to get the patient well. It's kind of my motto on that one. I don't care how it's you know, how it works, but as long as it helps the patient.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

And you use acupressure too. I know there are some chiropractors that will do like very light acupuncture, not like the full acupuncture experience, but like I've gone to one uh when I was in high school that used like little tiny needles that he would flick in up here and like on the kind of in spots near the spine or on my hands, but not like not like the big crazy needles that when I went to an acupuncturist. Um but you use uh like acupressure a lot of times, which provides relief. Is that like a normal part of chiropractic or is that blending in other kind of holistic techniques?

SPEAKER_05 17:44

These these points are actually more trigger points that I put pressure on. So there might be overlap in some cases, you know, where there's similar points in the acupunction or acupuncture points. But in general, it's a different type of uh contact point. These are there's charts that you might have seen in the adjustment room where they have found for each muscle there's a specific spot where uh lactic acid and other waste products accumulate and those become little buildups. So those are the trigger points, and because of a lack of blood flow in that local part of the muscle, the nerves get irritated and they start to refer pain under specific patterns. So after doing this for you know three decades, you kind of know somebody says, like you mentioned, your eye, it's probably in the back. There's one or two options. So you look for those, you just press smash on that um trigger point for a little bit, you break up the buildup, get blood flow to flush through, the nerves normalize, and the referred pain is gone. So that can be tension headaches coming from the trap muscles, it could be in a forearm where you get radiation or numbness in the hand, all those kind of things. So we were taught that in chiropractic college. I don't know how many use it because it's a little bit time consuming. The reason I ended up using it, honestly, was after I graduated, I did go back home and practice there for two years. And the legal time frame for chiropractic or um legal framework for chiropractic is a little bit different in Belgium. Or at least it was thirty years ago. So we were not allowed to use any physical modalities like electrostem or ultrasound or any of those things. But I do you know, chiropractors are looked at as moving the bones, suggesting, right? But it's working on the musculoskeletal system, so that muscular part is important as well. So we need to electrostem or so that's that's working on the muscles, relaxing them so it doesn't pull the bone right back out of place. The vertebrae or or whatever, um arm, shoulder, whatever it might be that we worked on. And in Belgium, I didn't have that option to use those modalities. I was like, oh yeah, we were taught about trigger points, let me work on that a little bit to relax the muscle. It turned out the results were yeah, kind of amazing to me or surprisingly uh um effective. So even when I came back here and I had access, you know, have access now to all these modalities that I'm allowed to use legally, I had a I've always had a hard time leaving the trigger points behind because I know how quick and and effective it is to use them.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

So yeah, I definitely n notice the difference when you do. So um it's hard to argue with like lived experience, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

It's ill uh, you know, even though I don't like always understand it all or often understand half of it, um, is it's hard to argue with the experience.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah. Um I do want to go back and and talk a little bit about like what the experience would be. So like if if someone is schedules for the first time to come to Safley Chiropractic, like what is that journey, the beginning of that journey look like? Because uh, I mean, I don't think that like people just walk in and you're putting them on the table and and starting adjustments. So what does what does your evaluation process look like and how how to figure out like what a treatment plan is for someone?

SPEAKER_05 21:34

The initial part is always what people love the most, right? Filling out the paperwork, which luckily now we have, you know, software and it's all digital, so you can just do that at home on your phone or on computer. Um so I looked that over, see what the history is. Um whether you've had surgeries or or major injuries over the years. Um so once you're scheduled, we On the first visit, I have an exam. Um scheduled first. Um talk about the history with the patient. Look at other concerns besides maybe they say they come in for a lower back, but um I see dizziness or headaches or other issues that sometimes they've just come to accept as part of life or or something in extremities and you know, like uh my wrist hurts or my shoulder hurts, and they don't even know that chiropractic could help for that. So they said, Well, what's that all about? And they tell me, so we can look at that as well. So most chiropractic officers like to schedule an exam first, send you home while you're still hurting for a while, and then have you scheduled to come back a few days later. I don't know, I find that kind of cruel. So after the exam we do the first adjustment the same day and then do therapy um for the muscles and so and then Yeah, the treatment plan is individualized, but mine are relatively short, uh I found. So a lot of times new patients is three to five visits only, unless there was a recent pre bad trauma. You know, you had a car accident or you fell off your bike. Um anybody watching, I know they might know who I'm talking about, a recent patient, but um you know, things like that could could cause you to come in a little bit more often, but usually it's pretty short. Um I don't do 15 to 20 visits or things like that a year often.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

So And um well, I mean you you mentioned like people talking about dizziness or headaches. I know for me, like I was having uh these headaches that I thought were like sinus headaches, and they ended up my ENT was like, these are migraines. And I remember telling you about that. And um, and then we figured out like, oh, mm many m often when I get a headache, uh something is out. And as soon as you adjust it, it starts to like that horrible migraine that builds into nausea and visual aura and all kinds of things, um, like just goes away.

SPEAKER_05 24:18

So Yeah, and that's that's often the off upper back or upper neck rather, upper cervical, uh base of the skull, C2. Sometimes when people, you know, sleep wrong or on their pillow or you know, high stress levels might do it too, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Um I don't know anything about that.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

So just surviving, just living through the through any given day.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah, um, but it's been a I mean, uh for me, it's been a real lifesaver. You really have like improved my whole quality of life. Um, and I don't say that lightly, but um it's so really going back to my gratitude moment, it is just for you. Like I am so incredibly grateful because I had like you mentioned, some people learn just to accept um like pain as a part of their life. And that's kind of where I was when I met you because I'd been to see these chiropractors that like were only interested in or seemed only to be interested in like getting me on the books for recurring appointments and a treatment plan. And they weren't really interested in helping me figure out like as a young active person, why do I have all of this pain? Why, like, what's going on? Um, what from a lifestyle standpoint, what from a bone structure standpoint, what like all of these things. And um, you certainly like were able to convince me to stop wearing my high heels with my back injury, which was a big help. Um, but you know, and I there's just so much that goes into it. But what I'd love to do is talk about like busting some of the myths in chiropractic, because I think the variety of experience that people have can lead to these, like even some of my friends, when I tell them I'm going to see my chiropractor, they kind of roll their eyes and say, um, oh, like you're a part of the cult. I'm like, look, it's um it's changed my life for the better.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

So um I do think that's really interesting because when I've told people, I think it's more that they um they're afraid, like based on what people have seen or heard, like whatever the misconception may be, I've I feel like it does run a gamut of what people um know about chiropractic care. Um, well, uh what they think they know versus like what the actual truths are.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah. So like let's bust some myths. What are some of the biggest misconceptions about chiropractic care that you wish people understood differently?

SPEAKER_05 26:50

That chiropractors are human. We what I mean by that is um I've noticed in every profession there are you know the of human doctors is where that came from, whether you have dentists or MDs or or surgeons. Um I I've seen some things online recently in on a Belgian uh news site that I follow still, how there was an expose about surgeons doing back surgery in Belgium, um, even though it's a not-for-profit, you know, healthcare system but different, but still they get paid for for what they do. And it said something about guiding a patient um through exercises and telling them what to do and advising them for an hour, hour and a half, and they would be paid, you know, a hundred euros, whatever it was, a low amount relatively. If you do surgery, you get paid thousands. And so humans um can be tempted by that, whether it's subconsciously or or consciously. An example of that with uh dentistry, when I came back after the two years in Belgium, or or just before I came back, um one of my neighbors in Belgium was a dentist, so didn't know what I was gonna do here as far as that. Um so I said, well, let's do a checkup before I um move back to the US. And he did the whole panoramic x-ray and checked everything out. Showed me a couple of um wisdom teeth that hadn't come out yet, but he's he showed me the space, there's they're angled correctly, might hurt for a few days when they or be uncomfortable for a few days when they come out, but there's no need to remove them, they're they're fine. Um move back here. Um my wife a couple months later goes to her dentist and says, Hey, how about you come with me, get established there as a patient. So, okay, good idea. Same thing, panoramic x-ray, his assistant comes in and says, uh, the doctor wants to schedule you to get your uh wisdom teeth removed. And I'm like, I'm I'm I'm out, I'm out of here. That just those kind of things, you know, you see in every profession. And then because of some maybe economic forces behind advertising, things like that, negative stories about chiropractic um get maybe amplified more than than others. Um we know there's there's issues that happen in every profession, you know, malpractice insurance is one of my ways to kind of dispel some of the myths, right, that chiropractic is dangerous. Um I think it's fair to say that money is the bottom line often in this country. Um actuaries calculate risk, right, for insurance companies, and that includes um malpractice insurance. So that's a good gauge of how dangerous are we. I pay six hundred and forty dollars every three months. So that's$200,$220 per month. I can guarantee you that is very cheap. And that's not because of me, that's the profession, that's a reflection of the of the chiropractic profession. So if we paralyzed every 17th patient we saw, I think that'd be thousands a month to pay in malpractice insurance. So to me, that's that's the ultimate argument of saying how dangerous is the profession. It's pretty safe because actuaries calculate our safety risk as being, yeah, they could have to charge them very much for malpractice. So wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Yeah, you know, I've never thought about it like that, but you ri uh follow the money. You really can't argue with that.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

So true. Like whenever you think when you're taking in the that risk assessment, like I don't think people really think about that going to doctors. Like I think if you're doing a surgery or something like that, you may look into the doctor that you're going to, but like how many people are actually looking into the to the doctors that they're you know just going to for, you know, a a wellness visit or you know, it you kind of go wherever your friends, family may have connections. And so that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Unless you're just like incredibly skeptical, like some of us. But you know, yes, it's true. It's true. Um, you know, it's interesting because you talk about like advertising and and the money aspect of it. I think um we you know, my personal like uh, I guess, belief system around uh medical care is like it's a blended approach. And I also know that I tend to react sometimes a little more uh strongly than others to pharmaceuticals and um and that's hard for me uh sometimes um often harder for me than maybe the average person. And so as a result, I will try to find a solution that is um non-pharmaceutical, but I certainly, you know, do take um participate in, you know, Western medicine and um and yeah, I take I take meds, I go see a traditional doctor as well. You know, I believe in like the the blended approach to health, um, just seeking like alternative methods first, if those are less invasive or aggressive, or always, you know, even when when you yourself um like suggest some supplements, I'm always like, well, let me read it first. And I know you've talked to me um about some of the research that you've done on some other things that I have been considering, just giving me your opinion on that, which I've appreciated, um, or or questions that I should be asking, um, which is really helpful. But I think um, you know, sometimes people like there's so much money in the US that goes into big pharma and pharmaceutical advertising. And so if we could resolve some of our symptoms outside of the traditional Western medicine, um, like that there would be an economic disadvantage to the companies with a lot of the big budgets. And so um, my I'm not a big conspiracy theory person, but my conspiracy theory on this is like it's viewed sometimes as not good for the economy to have holistic um treatments. And um, you know, if if you're not given a pill that you need another pill in order to reduce the side effects of the first pill, then you know what are they gonna do?

SPEAKER_05 33:33

So yeah, that's the the big word is the yeah, the economy, but who's the economy? Is it you know Wall Street? Is it the patient that's it's at least a benefit?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

It's cyclical, like it all feeds into it. It's it's just so interesting. Um so some people are really nervous about chiropractic care and like the sound. Um, and I know like even I have talked to you about like I'm at home and you know, I move my head and there's a big pop that happens, or you know, I stand up from my chair and my hips pop. And like, does the popping sound mean that something is going back in? Does it mean that something's coming out of place? Um, like what to tell us about the cracking sound.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

Cracking sound is just a side effect, basically. There's there's gas inside a any joint pretty much, or most joints. And when you go far enough in a range of motion, the pressure inside that joint builds to the point where at some point there's uh what's called a cavitation, it pops the that gas out of it, which is why you can pop your knuckles. I don't know if you could hear that, but it's very loud. Thank you. But but now I can't do that anymore because the g oh well, that one finger, but the gas is gone. But if you wait a little bit, it builds back up and then you can do that again. So that's that's a side effect. Because when we adjust, whether it's the spine or or any joint, um we move that joint into an angle or a position where the pressure builds up in there, there will be also some gas release, and which is that sound. It doesn't always happen. Sometimes we and the way I check what's out or in and in out of alignment um is with a leg check, which is a little bit different, but that is a little bit different. That's a whole nother podcast, maybe. But um it allows me to when I adjust the spine, you know, sometimes there's a big release, a big pop or crunch, whatever the nice word is, uh for it. I go back and think, and oh, I did a good job on that one, but then I do the leg check and it's still off a little bit, and I adjust it again, there's a tiny click. And I think that's a big reason why my my treatment plants are a bit shorter, because that leg check really allows me to know at the end of the adjustment everything is where it needs to be at that moment. Doesn't mean it'll stay forever, but everything right then and there is where it needs to be. Because sometimes I do an adjustment on the spine and there's no popping at all, like you just got in your neck maybe there. But um the leg check says, yeah, the adjustment was fine, even though there was no pops. It's just a side effect. Yeah. And if you really can't stand, some people what I did with the knuckles, they're just cringe, it's like chalk on on the was it? Nails on chalk mark on the I'm great with expressions like that, by the way. So I can use the drop piece, I can use a little instrument we were talking about, the activator. And and that doesn't have the pops, so there's alternatives to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Um I do think like there is some um like along with that, like the I love how you said, you know, that it's a it's it's a side effect of what's happening because I do think a lot of what you see in the advertising or even on social media, I feel recently, at least my feeds are like showing a lot of like um uh chiropractors adjusting people and recording that crunching sound or whatever. And um it's not necessarily it's not necessarily like a showing of the care or how well the adjustment was, it's just the side effect of that. Now I do know I've had people um as I've talked about my experience, talk about like their neck the neck and the idea of like adjusting the neck and some of the things that people are seeing with with the manipulations of those. Like I guess like how do you uh navigate those conversations with patients if they're maybe a little um scared of that, or like how how do you manage that?

SPEAKER_05 37:58

You kind of gauge the level of fear they have, if it truly you know, they're they're terrified of that, you could tell. Um I just use the instrument then and then they're fine with that because there's no neck movement really, there's no popping, you know, no cavitation that happens, and then they're fine with that. If they're kind of on the fence, because they've heard some stories here. I kind of mentioned the um insurance thing, the malpractice fee, and try to put them at ease about the risk factor being very, very low. Um if they say, okay, maybe we'll try it, then I sit them down. Because my my neck adjustments are sitting down. A lot of times it's laying on the back, but you know, not that it matters that much. But if I feel that even though they let they're letting me try it, but I feel they're tense and and it's gonna hurt because the m the the pain is is gonna be from the tight muscles more than anything. It's like, okay, I'm not gonna try it even. I'll just go with the instrument, maybe we'll do it next time. So I just don't force it. Uh I try to put them at ease by giving you know some some background information about safety, but I'm not gonna force a neck adjustment. Um and you know, I've got dad jokes and such OPA jokes. Um I'll tell them, I'll get my crunch quota on the next patient for the day.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

So I know um you're the first chiropractor, and I've seen so many over my, you know, m my few years here around this earth. Um Chris would try and peg me for being much older than him. But but um uh you're the first one that has like said, like explained to me like feeling the difference in the dip and the no dip on the back of my neck, and like when my neck is out and I have the headache, and like helping me be able to better understand the the physiology of my own body. And um like I think it it for somebody like me who is nervous and has a million questions and all of that, like that's helpful to understand. Like I can feel it, and then when you put it back, I can feel that it's back. And then I like it's hard to argue with the debilitating headache going away and being able to manage those versus um like living through those for so many years. But um yeah, it's it's uh it is interesting how people just tend to be afraid of things that they don't necessarily understand. And then rumors go around and people are like, I don't know if I would trust that. Um, but like go ahead and just put VIX all over your feet and that'll fix all your problems.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

I do, I think it is interesting how you said that, Jen, because I will say it wasn't until I started going and seeing um Dr. DeVos that I became more aware of my body and like how I was feeling. Like you were the first person to ever tell me I I was coming to you because I I was waking up in the middle of the night sitting up because my lower back was in so much pain. And I remember working with you and the team on um like strengthening my core, all of these things. And then you were like, your hips just get out of place. And so it wasn't until that time that now I can tell when I am I am not aligned and feel like my hips are weird, and but it's like ever so slight things that you notice, and it's not until someone brings brings that you know to your mind or um points it out to you that you really start to understand all of the different pieces and parts of how your body does does create an an um uh the way in which we live, and it's either good or bad.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

It's it's totally true. I mean, like the the headaches um you sometimes come from many different things, but often if I'm you know hunched over in front of my computer and I don't stand up for like six, eight hours at a time, even like when I was on my sabbatical, but like totally just clued into some project I was working on as the busiest person on sabbatical you've ever met, and um, you know, would go for those like really long sessions to build a website or something. And um, and then I would have a headache the next day. Gee, surprise that I'm like have this terrible posture in front of my computer. And um uh, or if I'm like really stressed because something is going on in my life that's really stressful and I'm not taking the time to care for myself and bring my shoulders back down from my ears, or um, the way that I sleep, which often is worse when I am, you know, not taking good mental care care of myself. And um, they absolutely do play into the mix. And then there comes all of the like, um, well, it's sort of my fault because I didn't take care of all these things. And I think um what I appreciate is um like you've given me so many tools, like stretches and um exercises and awareness. And, you know, we know that when I do my walk more regularly, at first maybe it's a little rough, but then after I'm doing it, um, it's actually better. But um, the kettleballs, but um, but you know, it's it's like there's also not this judgment zone of, well, like, hey, you you know how to fix this and you're you know, here you are, back here again, um, which I think is is really helpful. Um, but I also think, you know, Chris, you mentioned like becoming more aware of your body as somebody who like has been trying to, I know I've talked about in previous episodes, become more aware of my physical body and what's going on and like connect to that um because that's something that I had learned to kind of disconnect from. I think um like chiropractic care has been a good, at least as I've come to see you, has been a good way to better understand like how is what's going on emotionally. Emotionally and mentally impacting me physically so that I can live a you know a ha a better quality of life. Um so let's talk about the spine and stress and mental health and like how it all comes together.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Whole new aspect of things, right? Um we're going to the next layer.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

How does stress affect the spine?

SPEAKER_05 44:25

It affects everything in the body. I remember one professor mentioning something to the effect of stress will take anything in your body that's not optimal, that's or the weak spots maybe, and make it worse. And that includes muscles, that includes joints, that includes organs. So when your stomach's kind of weak, you have maybe because of you know chronic anti-inflammatory over-the-counter use, maybe uh the lining of the stomach's weak, when you're stressed, that is going to affect your stomach. Um it affects a lot of the um fascia that's around organs, around muscles, around multiple layers. And there's a lot of research still being done about fascia and how what is fascia? When you have a chicken breast and you have that little sh film, little white films kind of almost see through, that's fascia.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 45:33

And it turns out that that's throughout the body and different layers of it, around individual muscles, but then around groups of muscles, around organs. And it turns out there's a lot of nerve endings in these fascia sheets. And with stress and and dehydration, other factors, they can contract and fire the nerve endings and cause a lot of pain, chronic pain then as well. So stress affects the body, you know, not just the spine, but everything in the body. Uh a lot of it is through fascia, which is why these trigger points can help, and why I like to talk about, you know, like make sure you stay hydrated, especially in humid Texas, right? Um, like today. And so that's one aspect of it. Um I like the Yeah, I like technology and new discoveries like fascia, we're discovering a lot there, but also like old ancient wisdom sometimes. Yeah. Uh the Roman phrase or Latin phrase mensane and corpore sano means a healthy mind and a healthy body. So even 1,000 plus years ago, they knew to exercise and to stay active, it helps your mind be clear. And you know, how does that work? I mean, there's probably a multitude and then several of many of them that I don't even know or understand fully. But imagine just being active. Um, and and we have to do it artificially, as I call it, like in the gym, or go for a walk with the dog to get our exercise in. Back then, I mean, you were active because you had to grow your own food, you had to walk to wherever. Um, you got your exercise naturally, right, from life. So we we lack that now. Our bodies are really made for that. So we try to do it in a gym or so, which isn't always quite the same, I think, but um to to be active all day long, get your quote unquote exercise or activity, let's say, and at the end of the day you will sleep better because you're mentally fatigued. I remember as a kid, my my grandpa and my uncles had a construction company, and as soon as school was out, I would love to go there for a couple of weeks and and be active compared to school. I did play soccer, but otherwise, you know, normal level of activity. And there it was from crackadon till the evening till it gets dark, lifting 50 kilograms, which is over a hundred pounds, cement bags as a teenager and jumping off trucks and all of this stuff. The way I would sleep at night there, it was like you just pass out because you're exhausted. When you wake up in the morning fully regenerated, and when you're not active, even though you had active day work, but it's more mental, at the end of the day, your body's not going to be in the same sleep regiment. So there's a lot of things, and not a lot of it's not easy for us to replicate that, you know, in our desk job world and then all that.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

So it's yeah, it's a really good point you make. And um, I actually was just having a conversation with somebody at work this last week. We I work in a desk job and it's fully remote, and um, and that means that you know, we are at home. And we were talking about how like even just the change of being in the office several days a week to being at home full time, it's like you don't stand up and walk to a meeting room. So you sit longer and your meetings tend to be more back to back than they they would otherwise. And um, you don't have the walk from where you park your car into the office. You don't have as long of a walk to the bathroom. In fact, sometimes you take less time. Um, you're not like walking down the hall to talk to anybody. Um, if you're me, your lunch just shows up at your desk, um, which is really, really nice. But um you don't end up like standing up. And um, so then you you stay seated until like when you do stand up, it's you're almost sore to stand up, which is like really terrible for your back and your muscles and all of that. And so we were talking about like how do we encourage an environment where we more like mix in time because we want to show up um in certain, you know, ways where we are on camera. But then there are other times where you just need to be able to stand up or um, we do walking meetings where, you know, we just need to get outside and go for a walk. Um and just like being more intentional about not feeling guilty about doing those things, but feeling like that's our responsibility because, you know, we're not gonna like be able to even show up as well, not just physically, but mentally. We're not gonna sleep as well um when we don't do those things. And so it was just that's a really interesting perspective, um, especially given this conversation that that I had uh earlier this week and thinking about so many people have moved to working remotely and they think it's like the best thing, but it's harder because you find yourself sitting in your chair.

SPEAKER_05 50:44

It shouldn't be though. And and that's the thing that I think because of COVID, you know, working from home got thrust upon us overnight pretty much, right? And it's very different than then going into the office and then routines that we've had for decades. But it should be better. It should be better because say you had an hour communion, if you're in New York, you make that two hours, I guess, right? Um sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Now you don't just spend that time in the car.

SPEAKER_05 51:14

So that's sitting, that's not active, so you gain that time, right? So that's two hours or an hour, let's say. What can you do with that hour? You can go walk, you can exercise, and yet what do we do instead?

SPEAKER_01 51:29

We we work more.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

We work more.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

So Well, these are um Chris and I uh did a we and Ace, we did this great couple of episodes on boundaries. It was just my favorite thing to do. But um, I think it's really applicable here. Like and we we didn't have these boundaries built, um like these muscles built or routines built, um, or even understanding what boundaries are and that these are boundaries we need to put in place. And so we don't have the appropriate boundaries at home and we feel guilty about doing things that really are our responsibility to take care of ourselves until we get so far down the road that then we're disgruntled and we feel like it's somebody else's fault that we sat for six hours in the day as if somebody else controls when we stand up and sit down. Um, and we forget that we have agency of ourselves and uh behave as though we've given that agency to somebody else when they really didn't ask for it. Um and like if you're working in an environment where somebody is upset that you were, you know, taking 10 minutes to stand up um through the day, like then maybe you should reconsider your boundaries about what you're willing to endure.

SPEAKER_05 52:39

Yeah. I hear a lot of stories from patients and yeah, I don't know. I'm not in the corporate world, I just kind of hear stories, right, uh related to me from patients and all and people are retiring, people are let go, whatever. Yeah. Um there's no new hires. And they say, well, you just took on, take on that load, or divide it. What those one or two people did, divide it under you three, and just take on more, take on more. And there's deadlines, there's there's workloads to where it seems almost impossible to to set boundaries and and to leave your job sometimes seems hard because they they have ingenious uh reward systems, right? If you stay that much longer, you get this bonus, you get this money, and then people are trapped often, it seems like, which I find sad for them.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

You know, sometimes I think we do tend to trap ourselves more often than not, though. Like I I do think that it's this um thing we talk ourselves into where um because we don't have these good boundaries, uh like it's a it becomes an excuse because it's really uncomfortable for us to set a boundary and say, here's what I'm going to do. Whereas it would be, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but much less frequent that somebody would, you know, need to stand up for 10 minutes an hour and be told, you know, they're losing their job because of that. Or um, you know, in most cases, it's it's really not true. But yet, like even I have found myself um like thinking those things in the past. And then I I don't even realize actively that that's the thought that's in my head. And then I have to say, okay, Jen, you gotta stop making excuses because really at the end of the day, you're the one that's accountable for this. Um it's like me being mad about my calendar and feeling I'm at the mercy of my calendar. And why do I have all these back-to-back meetings? Well, who schedules my calendar? It's me. I mean, I'm I'm the one. So if I don't have blocks in my calendar to be able to like stand up and, you know, like walk away at least once a day for for a few minutes, then like I gotta blame that on myself. Um, and but uh because I need to start taking accountability for putting that practice in place. Now it doesn't mean, you know, like you you don't sometimes have to be flexible, but I think that's a conversation I've had to come kind of grapple with on my own and saying uh how much of this really is something that I've made up because it's maybe what I um like the culture of what we believed as a way to kind of be angry.

SPEAKER_05 55:24

And a lot of it is is often counterintuitive. Um remember years ago, I mean, I would have my schedule and I would work those those five days or half days, you know, throughout the week, the the full schedule. And of course there's what 4th of July or Christmas and and Memorial Day coming up. Those big holidays are the only times I would close a day. And and so I'd close a Monday, but then and we're closed on Tuesdays. So I would then open up on Tuesday instead to make up for that one date because oh my god, you know, it's my own business. If we're closed, there's and one one year or one holiday like that, one major holiday, everybody was out of town and you know, the whole staff, and I just thought, okay, fine. Um we'll just be closed Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, three whole days in a row. And scared me, scared me, you know. It's gonna be a horrible month. And then afterwards, yeah, I just was very busy from Wednesday on. And when I looked at the end of the month, it was it was the same or better. And I felt more rested, I remember. So ever since then, I started closing, you know, the the Monday and not opening Tuesdays, and it's it's been a lot better mentally, physically for me to have that recuperation a few times a year. So but it didn't seem like it at the time to me. It's like, oh my god, this is horrible, you know?

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Yeah, that's one of those boundaries though. Like you created it and it was scary at first, right? Because, you know, um it you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_05 57:01

I don't think credit for it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

And because you embraced it, like it did work out, and then oh, because I because this was forced upon me, I embraced it. Uh they're actually all in all netted net even or maybe even a little bit better. Um so like I do, I do think that there is uh when it comes to boundaries, sometimes it's scary to set them and and because the repercussions or the what what the outcomes could be, we don't know. And so it stops us from doing that. And I do think that goes a lot into um like a lot of my days, like people just reaching out randomly. And so it's like, oh, I want to make sure I respond to them, oh, I want to make sure I get back to them. And before you know it, you've had like an hour and a half of that, and you haven't moved, you haven't taken a drink of water, like the day just goes by so quickly. Um, but I do think there are, I have noticed because I'm I'm going back into the office much more frequently than I had before. And I I have started to see and feel a difference whenever I am sitting for too long. Yeah. Um, and so I guess like what are some of those signs or symptoms that people who do have more sedentary jobs, like what it what would be some symptoms um of like our body trying to tell us to get up and move or be more active? I know Jen mentioned um like tightness in her lower back if she's been sitting for too long, but like what are some potential other things that people may experience?

SPEAKER_05 58:25

Yeah, the main thing would definitely be the tightness and and soreness that you feel, even in the knees, you know, different joints, not just the back and the hips, uh hip flexors being really tight because you sit all day long, which is why I'm a big fan of the standing desks, and then not to stand all day long, but to alternate throughout the day, one two hours sitting, one, two hours standing, and that way you use different muscles. When you sit or stand too long, things start to ache, things start to hurt. This is this is very general, but that's that's basically how it is. And it's different for different people too, because of old injuries, because of you know, different uh issues they might have. Some people it's gonna be more their hips, some their knee, their ankle, because they they have many ankle sprains in the past, those kind of things. But aches and pains that that typically aren't there start appearing, and then often people will just start grabbing over the counter, you know, Tylenol and a leave and all those things, but then leads to, I think Jennifer mentioned it uh before, then that leads to stomach issues and and liver issues and so on. And instead of, you know, and that's why I like talking to patients, asking them, um, you know, Jennifer, we've had uh pre-crisp with the back as well when C1's out, but too often it can happen. You can sleep wrong. I mentioned sleeping wrong on the pillow, but it's like, okay, well, it keeps happening. So is your pillow wrong? Is there something else going on? What's behind this? And so, yeah, definitely the upper back, uh, this 21st century issue, right? So um standing takes takes that out of it. And you mentioned signs and symptoms. I I kind of wanted to to talk about that. We wait oftentimes until there's symptoms, which is pain or numbness, or tingling, or headaches. Those are all symptoms. Signs don't reach that level, and and we basically often ignore the signs. But you you both kind of mentioned before about talking about certain issues they can see beforehand, which is why I tell patients, well, I find the hips are off, or I find C1s off, or I find this or that, or a rib, or something like that. It's like, oh, that's what the pain was. That way, when you start standing, say at the desk, um, and you feel you're not standing level, but you start to shift your weight to one leg, that's a sign. It doesn't hurt yet, but that's a sign that your pelvic bones are starting to shift a little bit. So you come in, get one adjustment, and you're level again, you're good for quite a while. If you wait until the symptom appears, ignoring the signs or not being aware of the signs, then by the time you come in, it's it's way more often it takes two or three visits. And so I try to tell patients why they're hurting, why they're in the office, what I find, and what they can look for to recognize it at first uh sign of you know something being not in alignment.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Yeah, you know, I think that's such an important point that you bring up. And I know one of the things that I've struggled with is feeling like not being kind to myself, feeling guilty about the fact that I'm here and something was out, and it's because I wasn't doing the things that I'm supposed to be doing. And so then I um avoid going in because I kind of know, like, well, this is my fault. So it's I don't know, sort of this self-implied, like self self-um given punishment or something. I'm not sure. Um, but then I let it go on sometimes for far too long.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:16

With my brains, that's severe punishment.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's for sure. Um, but the like I know you'll adjust me and you'll say, Hey, it's back. And I'm like, oh, but it still really hurts. And you're like, Yeah, that's muscle. And um, you know, then we'll do the the stem, and and then you know, you'll do you'll graciously do a recheck for me, and it's like, yeah, no, it's all there. It's just muscle. And because I let it be out for so long, the muscles are so mad on occasion.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:42

Inflammation that comes with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

And then it's um so easy to just have it pull right back out of place. And so um, I think one of the things that you've been really patiently stressing to me is um like the timeliness of how long you let it let it go before you come in and get adjusted is important because if you let it go on for too long, you're gonna be right back here again, anyways. Versus coming in and and uh like once you know that it's happened, you gotta come in and get it taken care of. Otherwise, it's gonna take longer to fix. And I don't know, for some reason the math two plus two does not equal four in my head. It's so but it's so logical. It's just like uh this thing of like, well, this is my own fault, and I feel guilty and I feel silly and I feel dumb because I've got this bad posture and I know what's causing this, and yet here I am again. And um and so, you know, I do think it's sometimes hard for people to I don't know, maybe maybe most people aren't like me, but I do feel like it's sometimes hard for people to like think, okay, like yeah, I do need um to go in and like get adjusted, but then also I need to start making sure that I'm adding in time to do my stretches and like take care of myself. I need to be mindful of my posture, I need to make sure that I'm going on my walk and doing all those things that help us.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:13

Yeah, I try, you know, like us uh the phrase earlier was chiropractors are human, and this is this is uh way more general. We're all human, yeah. Including me, so I try to relate the personal stories I have with you know just working out, and I like hiking these days, I like uh kettlebell exercises and fasting. Um I do like to fast, and then there's you know, some supplements I would take. And I did that for I don't know, a couple of years. It felt great, um, high energy, no aches, pains, felt you know, weight was good, and didn't take a lot of time really out of my day. My exercise routine with the kettlebells, I make it a point, uh stubborn point, to say it's two hours or less per month of doing that, and that should be enough to get good muscle tone if you do the right exercises. And I worked, and and and then I stopped. Why? Human, you know, human nature, often circumstances, whatever it is, and I gained a lot of weight, felt a lot less energy, felt um just yeah, out of shape, not more inflamed, you know, all those negative things. And I knew what to do because it worked before, and it wasn't hard, doesn't take a whole lot of time, and I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

So even chiropractors don't get it right all the time.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:55

So and now I started up again finally, because of some number that. On the scale one day and finally got my motivation back. But and it's worked. I mean, it's slow and it's gradual, but I feel way different already. And so, but if I have that happen where I know what to do and then it's an easy routine and I stop it for an un totally unknown reason for me, why would I stop something that's easy and makes me feel so good? Then I'm not gonna judge anybody else. So when I relate things or recommend things to patients, I try to come from it at that from that angle to say, look, this is what would help you. But next time when somebody comes in and say, Yeah, I didn't do the kettlebell or I didn't do this, okay. I I've been there too. I understand it's it's what we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

What so we talked a little bit about um the thing like adjustments that are done and you know you some depend based on the patient, how many times you would recommend they come in for for treatment. But I guess like when we talk about those adjustments, what helps set us up for success to like hold them? So like we go, we get adjusted, um, ideally, like we're following a healthy regimen of exercise, water, things like that. But like what are the things that like help that adjustment hold um as our muscles are getting used to you know, whatever correction was needed?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:29

Some of it is in our control, you know, the things you mentioned, some of the stretching, uh, making sure our ergonomics are correct at at the desk with computers, things like that. What I often see too or hear is mattresses that seems to be and pillows, having the correct pillow, having the correct mattress, comfortable. Sadly doesn't always mean good for the back, uh I've learned over the years, which I wish it was, but um so the correct chairs and seats and and those kind of things that are external, but we pick them or we could change them out. So I like to talk about that with with patients if I see something's not holding well enough, so making those changes, and then the other exercises, having the correct ones, which you know um many people won't agree with me, or they just like um the heavier lifting, but it causes a strain. So but I'll take that just like running marathons is hard on the ankles and the back and and pounding and the knees, you know. I'll still take that over sitting all day and not doing anything. So any exercise is good, some is better than others. Swimming, I would love to recommend swimming to everybody because of the gentle resistance you have, you're in floating mode, so the the spine is not stressed at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

There's no good for the joints.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:58

But I I mean I mention it to people, but who I would not want to go swim. Some people do it, and it's great, but doing laps like that, you know, if when I want to be in the pool, it's playing with my granddaughters and going down the slides and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

But swimming laps can I call standing in a pool up to like my chest to exercise while I have a drink in my hand?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:20

Even with the drink in your hand, if you wad it back and forth, I might I might give it to you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

Especially in front of the jet where you have to fight the But that is a new thing that like a lot of community pools are putting in is those uh uh resistant areas like where they have like they create a flow, and it the the whole purpose of it is so that people can get that resistance training, if you will.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:47

And you have to use your whole core to keep from falling over. And yeah, I think that's a good safe exercise.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

With a drink in the hand, even yeah. Yeah. So see, we should have been doing this recording from a pool somewhere. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:02

That would be an audio-only version, I feel. Um yeah, uh what it maybe the drink in the hand should be water for hydration purposes.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Um okay, so I do want us to talk a little bit about navigating chiropractic care wisely. Because I do think um, so I was seeing you for years before I relocated to New York. And I remember like you and I had a few different conversations and passed emails back and forth because I wanted to find a good chiropractor who like, you know, I I do I wasn't looking for someone who was just trying to snap me, crack me, and send me on my way. Um, but I wanted someone who was really gonna see me and and like care for the whole body. So as it seems chiropractic care is having its big splash on social media, what should people be cautious about and you know, as they're evaluating um uh consideration for for this type of care, um what should people consider for like choosing the right chiropractor?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:11

Very, you know, good question, but very difficult answer. I've had patients move like you did, out of state or even you know, different cities, and they've asked me, do you know anybody there? Most likely not. And and then I have to, you know, I'll ask for the zip code or or I go online and I've noticed just like my website is canned chiropractic websites that you pay for every month, and then you know it's very difficult to tell from a website. Umce, you know, if it mentions um there's some names in here, I don't want to get sued, I guess, but uh if it mentions a lot of like accidents in their advertising or their name. If they look like an ambulance chaser, right, then it it might be an ambulance chaser. Um so those kind of red flags, I guess, wellness or family care are are good um good indicators maybe that that you're on the right track. But in general, I would say, which is probably true for for most health care um professions that you need to find a new dentist or a new MD primary care doctor, whatever it might be, is talking to friends, talking to family, and and you know, I don't do these um was it next door and that kind of stuff. But patients have told me that they are on their neighborhood chat groups, things like that, and they say, hey, does anybody know a good chiropractor? And my patient tells me, I'll put your name on there, and then somebody comes in. Um so those kind of recommendations is is probably better. People you know at work as well, you know, that could work. But just going online, it's who's got the best um Google algorithm and and that kind of stuff. And so, I mean you can read the comments and and that might help, I suppose, w if if they're legit. But other than that, it's talking to people, talking to you know, colleagues, family, and get recommendations that way to find out what do they really do? Because it's easy to make a fancy website and you walk in and you don't see any of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:33

So how what kind of questions do you suggest people ask a chiropractor to figure out if they're you know a good fit for them?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:42

To ask chiropractor. Yeah, I mean it depends what the patient wants as well, what they're looking for. I have patients that come in and say, I just want a quick adjustment and then don't talk to me about nutrition, and I was like, okay, I can do that. So it depends on what you're looking for, right? Um so if that's but if you're more like like we're talking about about holistic healthcare and total care, and you walk in and you don't see any supplements or you don't see anything um wellness related, then that might not be the place for you. Even before you ask a question, the the signs aren't already there, right? Yeah or you could say, well, I have questions about supplements or about exercises. Um if they just put you on an exercise routine, come in three times a week and do this routine. I I used to, I don't do exercises in the office anymore. Yeah. Um I just kind of show people easy things because I think my less than two hours a month uh premise kind of comes from there. It's like I know people are busy and I could come up with a you know five hour a week or or more routine that's really, really good, but nobody's gonna do it because it's not practical. So I try to live in the real world and and have people do routines that they're easily done at home. If you do go to the gym, then I can say, okay, well, maybe do it from this perspective. But if it's just about going in many, many visits in a row right off the bat, it's it's yeah, not a good sign to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:20

Yeah. Awesome. Um, is there any other like one last piece of advice or anything that you would want people to know as they think about their total wellness um and how to live a happier, healthier life?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:37

Hmm. One thing that I you know, because the stress and the many hours a day make not having time, I love the idea of meditating. I have tried over the years, done some of it, and stopped again. So I want to get better at that. The mental aspect of of what we do is is hard. The exercises we can, you know, we can get some effective exercises in and not that much time as I'm trying to prove in my routine. Yeah. You can get some adjustments, you can do stretches, you know, there's all these um things we can do to do pretty well that don't take too much time. But the mental aspect, and and that's you know, not through adjusting then, but bringing that aspect into your total healthcare, um I think it's important to wind down with social media, with constant input, we need to shut that off, uh, at least for a while. And that's a challenge. Um I see uh you know kids these days, uh, some that I know well, but and even at a young age, they're how many likes did I get, how many views, and and how they're constantly you know bombarded. It's designed to to trap people that way, right? So we need to balance that out. It's very important, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:07

Yeah. I and I I mean I totally uh know from my own experience that when I'm more mindful or doing meditation, all of a sudden, like those muscles that I didn't know I was holding tight, I'm a little more aware of. And uh and that goes like to our full uh spinal health, you know, if we're tensing our muscles and um and then you know, impacts our sleep and um like even my jaw, like this, I hold a lot of tension in my jaw, which then, you know, if my jaw is super tight, it starts to pull everything else off too. So um I love that you mentioned that because um it's like mind, body, soul all together as one.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:54

Very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:55

And uh you want to just be able to go focus on one or the other, but having to like really find the balance of focusing on all three to keep them in center.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:05

And there are, you know, we often seem to try shortcuts, you know, like for distress that that meditation would would alleviate somewhat. Um there's supplements. Um I think rhodiola is something you've probably heard. There's this ashwagandha, there's all these type of things, which is fine, they work, but I think it'd be better if we could step away from work a little easier, set the boundaries, like you mentioned, or if we can actually meditate. And I I love the phrase, what was it? If you don't have time to meditate for 10 minutes a day, then you should meditate for an hour a day. You know, those are the kind of truths that we have in this.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

Can I just take like five yoga classes and be fixed for life?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:51

For life, exactly, right? Yeah. And that's with chiropractic too. It's like once you go, you have to keep going. It's like, well, no, but you realize how good you could feel.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:01

Like once you go to the dentist, you all of a sudden have to go twice a year, every year.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:06

They got you. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

Yeah, it's about maintaining positive health um overall. I guess that's one thing we didn't talk about that maybe we should really quickly is is chiropractic always reactive care when something is out, or is it sometimes preventative care or maintenance?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:26

Yeah, it can be preventative or maintenance. Um I don't have a set time frame for maintenance care or preventative care. Um the average is probably about six weeks, but you know, it depends on on your lifestyle, your your injury history, things like that. If I have a lot of patients that travel a lot, you know, for work, travel's hard on the body. So you're like in the airplane seats, pushed over, you're pillows, mattresses, hauling your luggage, and then you know, it's just hard. So those people might come in a little bit more often. Um others come in, you know, so the average six weeks, but I've come in every two, three months, and that's fine. So it's based on when you come in, how for one, how do you feel, of course, but also do I see a lot out? If are you off by an inch or or you know, uh big big shifts? We probably wait a little bit too long, but if it's still pretty decent, that's okay, we could have waited a little bit longer. So that's how I work, it's very individualized. But that allows the alignment to be such that you're good for a while unless you fall or you know, things happen, trauma happens. But usually that's preventative. You're on your way to being off enough to to become painful, we catch it before it gets to that point, and then you're good for for quite a while again.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:49

Yeah. I love this conversation because it I think really refocuses, like it's treating our our body with kindness, but it's being mindful about it. Like it's you have to be tapped in. It is very easy to be overwhelmed by all of the things that are happening around us, and we do like, you know, I can deal with this later. Oh, I feel it hurts a little bit right now, but it'll be okay. Um, I'll just pop an Advil or whatever. And and that's actually pushing it down the road further and like m gets you into this space where then you're mentally, physically not in a great place. And so I love like it's about finding that balance, being true to yourself, creating that time and space to care for yourself. Um, which, you know, we as a society, it's not something that's really celebrated or encouraged much, like or or maybe talked about, but not the practical advice of it, I don't think is is really provided. So I so appreciate the the I know we want to talk about chiropractic care, but I feel like it turned into this like larger conversation around like just how we see our wellness in general.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:58

Because I see chiropractic is part of that puzzle too. Um I think there's some which could be a red flag to one one of the earlier questions, or at least to me it is, um, about how to find one. If they if you walk into their office, I'll fix everything through adjusting you. That's that's probably uh excessive claim. Yeah.

unknown 1:22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:23

Well, I I know that you have been, um you actually have been a part of my gratitude moment in the past on podcast because um, you know, I think part of what sets you apart is um, and I'll just brag on you for a minute. Like I know that you are invested in in the health and wellness of your patients and that you do this because um, you know that you're making a meaningful difference in people's lives. And I, for one, am incredibly appreciative of uh being able to find um, you know, a small team of healthcare professionals who actually care about my end outcome and you're a big part of that. So um I just wanted to say thank you for that because it makes a huge difference knowing that I'm not just coming to see you to make sure all of my, you know, bones are in place, but also like you care about um, you know, what life is like for your patients and and improving their quality of life. And um, it's such a gift to be able to have that. So thank you. And thank you so much for taking some time to talk to us today. I this is, I think, such a big part of our overall health and wellness and happiness and this search for like a better life, um, and how we can take accountability for that instead of being sort of at the mercy of what life gives us or the ignorance of our youth.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:46

Um have to take it, yeah, have to take charge to a to a degree to take time to do the right things, whether it's exercise, meditate, um, sleep, take enough time to sleep. That's that's big too.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:58

So um absolutely. So if someone wants to come see you at South at South Lake Chiropractic, how do they how do they schedule an appointment with you?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:09

The one way would be the website, South Lake Chiropractic.com, and our phone number and email is on there, so that's one way of doing that. 817-488-8837 is the phone number in case you want to um uh call there. And there is a text number, which I do not know by heart. Let's see. That is 817 8837204, I do believe. Um that's the newest modern way of contacting us, is just text into our software.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:46

Yeah, it really it really is pretty easy, actually, to do the text thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:50

I don't think I've for us and the and the patients both.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:55

I can't think of a time I've called um in the last, I don't know, year. Uh guys it's always texting. It's just so easy to do the text. Um but uh we really appreciate you taking the time uh with us. We we value you, we appreciate what you have done uh for our lives and our health and happiness. And we also appreciate you taking the time to talk with our community about um like our health and and how to be on this journey. So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:25

Thank you for um Chris and Jen will always be my first podcast I ever did. So that's a whole new experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:33

Look at you, you're an expert now. Um well, we uh have absolutely loved having this conversation. And if you have thoughts about this as you're listening, we would love to hear from you. We'd love for you to share your experiences, your thoughts, your tips. You can, depending on what platform you're listening on, you can uh leave a comment. We love those. We always uh read and respond to those. Um, you can send us an email at connect at chris and genitm.com, or um you can text us as well at 940-278-8129.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:12

That's right. And don't forget to follow us on all of our social media platforms. Again, we're on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook as Chris and JenITM. ITM stands for in the morning. Didn't want to make you have to type out more than you needed to. Um, so please feel free, like, subscribe, share, comment, all of the things. Um, and you know, we so appreciate you you coming and building and being part of this community with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:39

Yes. And until next time, be kind to yourself, to one another, and make it a great week.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:44

Bye, everyone. Bye.