How to Define Your Personal Values for a Happier Life

In this episode of Chris and Jen in the Morning, the hosts shift the conversation from surface-level interests to the deep framework of personal values. Moving away from corporate speak, Chris and Jen explore how defining your core values is essential for transitioning out of life's 'hamster wheel' and stepping into intentional, authentic living. They share personal reflection strategies, discuss how high-stress situations trigger emotional autopilot, and break down why personal values serve as the ultimate prioritization system when navigating difficult, real-world choices.

Three Pivotal Points

• Values vs. Beliefs (The House Blueprint Analogy): Jen illustrates that core values serve as the unchanging structural blueprint of a house, while beliefs are like the shifting paint colors on the walls. While beliefs can evolve with learning and new perspectives, core values remain relatively stable and serve as the foundational layer for our choices.
• The Brain under Stress and Boundary Violations: The hosts examine why people sometimes act in direct conflict with their own values. When under intense stress, the autopilot functions of the amygdala and limbic system take over to prioritize immediate self-protection, overriding the higher-level intentional thinking required to uphold personal boundaries and long-term values.
• Values as the Foundation for True Alignment: Chris and Jen emphasize that sharing core values matters far more to the health and longevity of friendships and romantic relationships than simply sharing common hobbies or surface interests. Recognizing alignment on these deeper guiding principles determines who belongs in your inner circle of trust and vulnerability.

Website - www.chrisandjenitm.com

Email - connect@chrisandjenitm.com   

Voicemail and Text available at 940-278-8129

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Chapters

00:00 Exploring Personal Values

02:01 The Importance of Gratitude

04:18 Nature and Connection

05:48 Understanding Values and Beliefs

13:21 The Role of Ethics

25:47 Navigating Conflicts of Values

29:11 Navigating Relationships and Values

33:51 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Authenticity

38:53 Boundaries and Burnout: The Interplay of Values

44:08 Decision-Making in Conflict: Balancing Values

48:54 The Importance of Shared Values in Relationships

54:05 Understanding Values: A Personal Journey

57:26 Living Intentionally: Aligning Actions with Values

01:02:39 The Complexity of Values and Their Impact on Happiness

01:08:58 Outro

 resources

Dare to Lead by Brené Brown - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QK4Q4X4

The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FC0V4O

The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002V0R4A0

Authentic Happiness by Martin Seligman - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A7U7Q4Q

The Gifts of Imperfection by Brené Brown - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q2V4U4Q

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Have you ever felt completely drained by a relationship or completely overwhelmed by a major life decision? But you couldn't quite put your finger on why? We often float through life on autopilot, letting our beliefs or external rules dictate our choices. But beneath the surface, there's an invisible blueprint guiding who we are, our core personal values.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

I was thinking, like, look, when you build a house, the blueprint of the house is is the values. And then all of the other stuff that it takes to bring it to life in a house, those are the beliefs. You can change the paint color on the walls, but the blueprint doesn't change just because you changed the paint color. Over time, you will change the paint color of a wall, but the house is still that same blueprint.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

They are the constellations that orient us in times of uncertainty and the foundation for true boundaries and authentic relationships. Today, Chris and Jen dive deep into the messy, beautiful journey of self-exploration to help you map out your guiding principles. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Welcome to Chris and Jen in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Where self-care meets real life.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

I'm Chris.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

And I'm Jen.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

And welcome back to another exciting episode. Welcome, welcome. Um, in many of our previous episodes, Jen, we've kind of talked about this idea of using our personal values as like our gut check or kind of the the thing to steer our decision making when we're in maybe potentially um uncharted or uncertain waters.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Um, and so the more that I was thinking about that, like, what are my values? And when I'm asked about them, like, can I actually articulate them? And um, what are they? And and how do I how do I know what they are? So it just really got me thinking, and I was like, wow, although I know what values are and I I kind of know what my guiding principles are, I don't know if I can actually articulate these things. So it kind of led me to this idea around why don't we do uh an episode on values, personal values?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Love it. I love it. Did you do a journaling exercise, perhaps, to figure that out?

SPEAKER_03 2:18

No, I did not.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

It's like it set you right up. And I know. It's like the golden layup right there. There was no swish.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Yeah, no, there was no journaling activities, but there was a lot of reading and a lot of reflecting and um just kind of pulling apart my beliefs around them and like what I've learned them to be versus like how I've seen them show up in real life.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Um well, I'm super excited to talk about this. But before we do, uh, I just want to say uh if you are interested in joining our community, we absolutely would love to have you please follow, subscribe. We're on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, um, like, share, comment, join in the conversation because this is a conversation between Chris and I, but we really want it to be more broadly a conversation with our community. So um please follow, subscribe, and then join in the conversation. We would absolutely love to have you as a part of our continued community.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

We sure would. And we have a um future episode that will be coming in a few weeks. You and I both read the book Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reed. Um with Pride Month just around the corner, um, I think there are some uh topics potentially within that book that we can uh reference, but also have a meaningful conversation that um I think impacts and would be meaningful for the Pride Month. So we would love for you to join us for that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yes, very excited, up and coming. But before we dig into values today, let's talk gratitude.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Let's do our gratitude moments. I feel like the last few times I've gone first. So, Jen, why don't you kick us off?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I'll kick us off. And I will say that today it's spring. We're in the spring as we're recording this, and um, I have been out and about photographing my birds and flowers and all of that. And um, and so today I'm just feeling really grateful for the honeybees um because they pollinate the flowers and you know, like orchestrate this beautiful blooming that happens that we get to enjoy. And um, as much as like my allergies don't appreciate the blooming, um, I really do like it's it's a uh a torture of love because I really do enjoy all of the beautiful flowers. You can ask Ace when we go to the store. There are always these, you know, great plants outside. And I don't touch dirt as a rule, but I'm always like wander through them and think about oh, wouldn't this be nice if somebody would plant this in my yard and then take care of it for me so it doesn't die?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Um so I am grateful for the honeybees that I have caught on the flowers and the gardens that we've gone to uh with my um with my camera, uh pollinating the flowers and just it's so magical the way that you know all of all of creation, just all of earth, all of life, existence, I guess I should say, uh, just works together to make beauty unfold each season.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Which really does make it easy to find, you know, small moments of of happiness and gratitude and joy. Um if you open your eyes and look for them in that kind of way, because it is it really is all around us.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

It really is. It really is.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Um my gratitude moment is very closely um uh uh related to that, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Oh, that's so weird because we did not talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

I know it's a surprise. Um we uh recently went to it's finally been uh nice outside here. So we made it a park day and actually went and enjoyed sitting in the park with some friends, had some snacks, had some drinks, lots of laughs, and just really enjoyed being outside, seeing all of the all of nature around us, um, uh along with the urban setting of New York City. So um it it was a great time just to spend with friends and you know, kind of just disconnect from everything and be present with one another. Um, you know, we talked about grounding a couple of weeks ago and um literally put my feet on some grass. So um I, you know, practice a little bit of what we talked about.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

I love that. The last time I was in New York, we went to the park.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

We sure did.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

And it was lovely.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

We had great memories from that moment too.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah, oh yes. Well, look, we make the memories we keep.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Um the ones we don't.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Exactly. Well, so like I had said in many of our previous episodes that we've talked about, we've we've talked about like using our personal values as those things to gut check or steer us in our decision making. Um and I personally, and I don't know if many other people would agree with this, but I feel like people may walk around with without the ability to perfectly articulate their list of values. Um, and so I think what I have found is it's whenever we're in discomfort or when those values seem to be challenged that we begin to really understand what our values are and the lines that may be in the sand that we don't even know are there because they're so innate to us. So um today I wanted to kind of bring this topic of values up so that we could maybe help people in this journey and and and maybe, you know, kind of figure out how we can share these proactively in ways of like setting healthy boundaries to set us up for success, to cultivate great relationships with people. Um so that's kind of what what I bring to the table today.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Well, I think it's really interesting, you know, as you talk about understanding your values and even going on a journey to explore your own values. Um, you know, I think that sometimes most people kind of tend to live life just floating, like floating through allowing life to take them wherever it's gonna take them.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

And um, I think the alternative to that is living an intentional life. And um, I think that it's important to understand what your values are in order to live intentionally. And so as you kind of hit those places in life where you start to say, Hey, like I'm waking up from the the hamster wheel or the journey or the you know uh lazy river that I've been on, and trying to live intentionally, like what does that mean? What is it that I care about? What how how do I give direction to my choices in life? And um, and when I think about values, that's where I think taking some time to explore what is really important to you, what you hold most closely, um, like that's how you define your values. Like beliefs change over time, and they're supposed to, as we evolve and gain additional perspectives. That's the art of learning, is having our beliefs change and evolve over time. But values, I think, tend to stay pretty core. Um so um that's that's when you talk about like talking about your values. I think the first step in understanding what our values are is first like to have this desire to start living a little more intentionally and then to um like do some self-exploration and really kind of start asking yourself, what are when I'm when I'm in places to make decisions, tough decisions or important decisions, like what are the filters that I just innately use to figure out how to decide that? Or if I were to do a word cloud of the things that I say all of the time, what are the things that would come up the most and what's the common theme in those? And I think those are some ways to start um like figuring out what are your values.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah, really exploring and trying to figure out what those what what the truth is to you and the way that you, I think, kind of uh move through life. So I I truly see values as as your guiding principles that like are they matter deeply to you. And uh I think it isn't until people are pushing up against them that maybe we start to feel like a level of conviction against them that may even be surprising in the moment because like, oh, I didn't I didn't realize I held so tightly to that until all of a sudden it's being challenged.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Um, but I do think there's a difference in like values, like what you said, beliefs. I think goals are another thing that people sometimes get conflated. Um, because I I I don't I don't know if that's because like this idea of values has been like watered down or if it's just like we use it a lot in corporate speak, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Um, and I think that oftentimes from a company standpoint, values are something that um we frame up and say, like these are what we want to stand for, but they're not really what we stand for.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Um it's actually a really good good perspective.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

And so it kind of changes the uh subtext of the meaning of the word. But another way I think to think about um values, like if I were to draw a word picture uh here, um you know I love to look up at the sky and the things in the sky. And um, I might think about values kind of like the constellations in the sky. There are many of them. Um, and when you look up and you uh look at them, you can kind of orient yourself to where you are based on which constellations you're seeing up in the sky. And there's many other stars in the sky, like there's many other things. Um, but I think values are kind of like the constellations up in the sky that sort of help you figure out where you are in space and in time. Um so um when I think about my own values, it's interesting because I think, you know, authenticity is something that's really important to me. Accountability is a value that I live by. Um, kindness is something that's really important to me. Individuality, balance, and like tenacity or drive or will or persistence, however you wanna, you know, whatever word you want to use, insert there. Um, gratitude is obviously a value of mine. Um, and and bravery, um, braverism, as they would say in in wicked, um, is is definitely, I think, a value that I have. And when you put all of these values up next to each other, I think some of them, there might be situations where you might think, oh, well, these things might conflict with each other, like authenticity and kindness. Uh, but I think that's how you start to really shape up the unique constellation of your values, is by saying, okay, both of these things are important. And so if you were to build a Venn diagram, where's the spot in the middle where they overlap? Um, because I do think that like when I say these are my values, if somebody else comes along and says, Oh, I have those same values, that doesn't mean that we're gonna believe all of the same things. Right. And so I think that's the difference between like values as a foundational layer and then beliefs on top of that. And um, you know, and and like your moral code is defined by your values, but that's kind of like a um the the kind of cross between your your beliefs and your values. Yeah. Um, and then that sort of informs how you make your decisions, which which bec that's your morals.

unknown 14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

That's the way I think about it.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

I do I I think that's a really interesting perspective on it. I I do believe that thinks differently. I don't think differently. I think this is a lot of this is like theoretical, right? Because it's hard to tangibly put to the exact things that you were saying. You people can align in their values, but the way that you live them, execute them, and and uh protect them can be very different, um, person by person. And so to me, it's one of those things that um I think we all talk about it in this very big theoretical way, but whenever we get to this in action type um moment, it looks very different. Uh not very different, that's makes it seem very extreme.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

But I love it. I love that you say that because like if you think about it, if you look at religions across the world, for instance, um, a lot of them have are like based on similar values. Um and and even when you look back historically over time, and yet their belief systems are different. It's like the facts are different um from one to the other. And um, this is where I know you and I have talked in the past about like oftentimes when you know we have like political campaigns happening or, you know, um we have these um conversations that feel very like high stakes or meaningful. Um, we often end up talking about our beliefs and not our values. And if we adjust our perspective and focus on values, I think oftentimes we would find shared meaning there with the people that we tend to interact with or surround ourselves with. It's the beliefs, like the dressing on top. So if I were to give you another sort of analogy, um, I was thinking this morning about values. And I was thinking like, look, when you build a house, the blueprint of the house is is the values. And then like all of the other stuff that it takes to bring it to life in a house, those are the beliefs. And you can change the paint color on the walls, um, but the blueprint doesn't change just because you changed the paint color. And over time you will change the paint color of a wall, um, whether it's you or whether it's somebody else who lives in it next. But the house is still that same blueprint. And so um when I think about values and I think about beliefs, if you think about the values as the blueprint and the beliefs as, you know, the the everything else, all of the stuff that you see. Um if we talk about the actual structure of the home, the blueprint, um, instead of talking about what color the wall is, we might find that we can actually start solving more challenges or showing up for each other in a way that feels more supportive versus figuring out where we clash and just spending all our time on that.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Now, do you think um when there is like a clash, whether it's like do you believe that um do you believe some of the conversation may be in the wrong area in trying to like assess what is what is the problem we're actually trying to get to the bottom of? Is this a values-based thing or is this a beliefs-based thing?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Well, I think we tend to overemphasize the importance of beliefs. Um you know, like we ask these questions. We oh, curiosity is absolutely one of my values, by the way. Um uh, how could I miss that one? Um, you know, we are curious by nature, uh, humans, and some of us more so than others. But um, but you know, if you think about um you think about history and you think about these like great historical figures that we have, many of them are trying to solve these unsolved questions of, you know, life and the universe and everything around us. And I mean, this is my magical year, 42. And that's the answer to life, the universe, and everything around us. But what's the question, right? Yeah. Um, and what I love about that concept is like we feel like these questions that we're asking, like, how did we get here? Where are we going? Are we the only ones here? Um, you know, what religion is right? Is there a god? What happens when you die? Like all of these, these questions that feel so important to us. Yeah. They're they're like really, is the answer to that question important? Or is it what's behind the question that's really more important? Like, does it matter if I think, you know, there are other people out there in the universe or not in consequence to how I show up and live my life? Like, why is that so important for me to know?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

It's like what will the answer change about how I live my life today in this moment?

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Do you think like from a societal perspective that that like that's changed over time? Like, do you I guess my question is is before we were so connected and before we it was so easy to to know what was happening, you know, somewhere else?

SPEAKER_01 20:27

I don't think so. I think in my um from my perspective, the more information you have, the more curious you can be. Because then you can just go a layer deeper. I mean, I always say that with like analytics. If I'm providing good dashboards and and data, then people should just be even more curious, um, right? Because you're presenting information that makes you think about other questions and how does this all relate underneath? And I guess that's part of my like curiosity by nature. But um, if I'm presenting data that like no one has any follow-up questions on, then why does it matter? What am I like what am I doing? Um, and so I think that I'm some my opinion, but I think um I think the the overabundance of information that we have just, you know, accelerates our ability to be even more curious because the more that we learn, like you think about science and how we've advanced our understanding of the world around us and the world we live in, then I would argue that we have more questions today than we did, you know, a thousand years ago. Yeah. Because we understand more. Um, so then there are more questions to uh to then go, oh, well, now there are even more things for me to think about and and more things that I don't know. And I do think that's the art of wisdom is like becoming wise is just understanding more about what we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Um, versus like. I used to think that becoming wise meant you had all the answers. And um that's not it at all. Becoming wise is starting to understand the the more that you don't know.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Yeah. I I'm beginning to see more of why whenever I was in school, these um we I remember learning about values and um the they put values, morals, and ethics all together. And as we're having this conversation, it's becoming more and more apparent to me why like you would teach these three things together, because I think closely related, but not at all the same. So like our values being those self-chosen principles that really give us like meaning and purpose. And morals are typically those externally imposed rules by whatever society or in culture, uh religion, like you were talking about. So probably this belief-ish um perspective.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

I mean, maybe maybe I I don't know that I don't know that I agree with the definition wherever it comes from that morals are externally po imposed, because I think um like my moral code feels very purposeful and internal, internally driven. But um I would say that I ag I absolutely think that values are like the the core of of what you hold, um or you know, like uh and and morals are like the rules then that you uh live by.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

But I just don't know that they're the primary, like they regulate the behavior.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah, I just don't know that I agree that they're always externally imposed. Um, like I think for me, I would in internalize and say, like, what are the rules that I guide my own behavior by? What are the rules I create that I guide my behavior by based on my values?

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Okay. So then what do you think ethics in in the words and wisdom of Jen?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

You know, um, I think a lot about my ethics class in uh college and my ethics professor, and I can I cannot remember his name, which is such a disservice because he was so great. He was one of my um seven to 10 o'clock classes, and often we would get caught up talking after class, and I would be late picking up my kid, and everybody would be like, Were you out partying? And it's like, no, I'm just talking to my ethics professor, but like not in a weird way. Just in a like we get in these like debates about life sort of way, which I think is so typical of like what an ethics professor would be in the middle of. But um, you know, I think one of the things that I learned um and like really started to understand in taking his class is that like ethics is the gray area that that lays between right and wrong. Um, because I believed in a world that was very black and white. Um, you know, as I was in a space of going in and taking that class. And that's kind of the world that I was brought up in was like, if you're not for it, you're against it. And um, like it's very black and white, and there is no nuance. And so going through this ethics class, it was all about like sometimes there is no right or wrong decision. There is no good or bad decision. It is weighing the pros and cons on both sides and figuring out like which is the least risky outcome, which is the the least difficult outcome. And like if I take that to an example, um, you know, I I value uh life and the sanctity of life, like the the um the value that life has, any life. And um that life doesn't, you don't you don't have to be a person that I agree with or like for me to believe that I should be protecting your life. But sometimes there are people that are out there to hurt others and take their life away. And so, you know, what do you what do you do in those scenarios? And then you like your choices to protect your values in one area start to encroach upon protecting your values in another area. And so we spent a lot of time that semester talking through those kinds of scenarios that were really actually quite hard to grapple with. Um and he took us, you know, outside the context of the business realm to be thinking about that just from a life in general perspective. And so um, when I think about ethics, what I think about is more like a prioritization system for figuring out when your values are in conflict based on your choices, how do you make a choice that feels the truest to you?

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Yeah. And I I when I think of ethics, um, my aunt was a doctor. And so I always go back to this idea around medical ethics and what what is the verses to do no harm.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

And like the code we live by. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

And so it's like it's that place that you do go back to when there is a conflict. Um and it is, it does help. Um it's like a reminder or an anchor, I don't know what you want to call it, but I love type of prioritization system, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Of how do you figure out how to how to make the rightest decision when the decisions that you have to make maybe both no no decision feels right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

I don't love any of these.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Um but not making a decision is also a decision, and they may not feel right either. And so um, you know, when you're in that position, because life is, you know, tangible and real, it's not theory. How do you how do you apply the theory when it gets messy?

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Right. And again, I think that's where this to me gets a little um like theoretical because until you have something bumping up against that, like it may be it may be an unknown thing to you.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Um and so when I when I was thinking more around this, um, I was finding that a lot of stuff shows that like values help shape our boundaries, our sense of belonging, it can help us manage um burnout and how we actually can show up in relationships. Um and it it's interesting because we talk about all of these things. Um but I hadn't I hadn't thought about like how much it actually goes in. And um I love the analogy of the house because you may not realize all of the all of the things that are within your house if you take down the walls and you know, see what all is back there. Um yet it it is an infrastructure that supports and and helps protect you. Um and so often um how we protect our values is in boundaries. So um, like if you value peace, you may limit the amount of chaotic relationships that you have. So I remember I used to hang out with someone who was just fairy, I would always walk away from my interactions with them feeling totally drained. And it was it wasn't until years later and seeing like what they had done with their life that I was like, oh yeah, we we probably weren't really meant to be friends. Like share values. Right, exactly. And and it was because it was at odds, but it felt like we were in the same friend group and it felt weird that you know, why wouldn't we get along? There's there was no like conflict between us. It just was it after being with them, I've always felt so drained.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Well, you know what's interesting is I think um oftentimes, you know, uh when we perceive somebody as being in our in-group, we assume that we have these shared values um because we've, you know, like let them in. They're in our in-group, they're in our circle. And so we assume that we have these shared values. And then uh sometimes we get really close to people, and then it's in those moments that we realize our values are misaligned, and it usually ends up kind of in some painful way.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

And um, and I think that as I start to think about how to be more intentional about the relationships that we keep and the like circles of like um closeness in those relationships, it's more about becoming intentional about who you let all the way in and making sure that like you you do have shared values. Otherwise, you may be coming most vulnerable with people who um, you know, don't see the world in the same way and may not protect your vulnerability in the way that you deserve. And that doesn't mean that they're not a good person. It doesn't mean that you can't have a relationship with them, but it may not be the best fit to have that closest relationship with them. And I think as we are little, um, we've talked about this before in like our episode about making friends, you just, it's like proximity that um becomes how you make friends. It's not about finding people who you have these shared values with. And so when you think about like the traditional college experience, it's like um going off on your own, figuring about uh, figuring out who you are, meeting all these other people, having all of these like deep discussions about life, the universe and everything, and then picking people. But I think many people don't get that experience, and you sort of don't learn to be thoughtful about who you choose to build these close relationships with. And so then you start to feel like you're in conflict. Um, and and like you said, you end up feeling like drained at the end because you've you've let somebody in so close who, you know, um you don't share values, and that's okay. It's not wrong. It's just it's just um it's it's not as supportive. And so, you know, I think sometimes also I feel like I make decisions or we all make decisions that are in conflict with our core values. Just because it's what you value doesn't mean it's always how you show up.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

And um, so I was thinking a little bit about like, what's going on in the brain when that happens? Like, what why would I uh even when I intentionally understand what my values are, why would I sometimes show up in a way that's uh in conflict with my values? And um, you know, what I was reading is, uh, and it makes sense, we are most often likely to act in ways that are in conflict with our values when we're under stress, because that autopilot of, you know, the amygdala and the limbic system that moves in to like put you in this like fight or flight situation is um it like overrides the parts of the brain that help you make decisions based on that higher um level of thinking. And so it prioritizes uh your this part of your brain prioritizes what it thinks it needs to do to protect you versus how you intentionally want to live your life based on your values.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

Um this is a long-term uh evaluation.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah. So if you think about like you're you're in an argument and you um kind of lash out at somebody and uh maybe you kick them while they're down, and um, that's like in conflict with your core values, um, then you might think like, okay, why was I in that moment triggered in this place where I felt like I needed to lash out and protect myself? What else is going on? Um, oftentimes it's probably not about that scenario at all. Maybe you just felt like safe with that person, let your guard down and but you're walking around um having things that you haven't dealt with. Um, but I do just I bring that up because I want to clarify that um as you're thinking about what your values are, it's not always how you behave that you have to look at to decide what your values are. It's then after you take action, like, do you feel like you're in conflict? Do you feel bad about it? Yeah. Um, because I often assume that other people will feel bad about them acting in ways that are in conflict with my values. But then I have to remember like my values aren't necessarily their values. Right. So when I'm sitting here trying to contemplate, like, why would they do that? Um, it's because it's in conflict with my value system, but that might be different than theirs.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Yeah, some of the things that I actually found talked a lot about, like, number one, whenever you like look up values, the majority of stuff is always like business related. So I'm like, I don't, I don't like uh I'm I'm not thinking about this from a business perspective. I'm thinking of this from like a personal perspective. And a lot of the things that I found actually said exactly that. Uh you actually find some of your values and some of the meaning after you've shown up or have said something, or even just like witness something, and maybe you took no action, but it's in that reflection that you're like, ugh, why why was that tough? Why is it still sitting heavy with me? Why, why am I here? Um, that we begin to truly suss out what what was triggered in us or what potentially we wish we would have done, um, or how we wish we would have shown up. Um that we we don't really get to that space until it's we're more in that reflective area. And I will say I think for me, one of um one of the values that I have come to understand that I hold dear dearly to me is authenticity. And I think it comes to this idea around belonging, because for so long I hid who I was and I tried to um uh be who I thought everyone wanted me to be, or what society thought I should be. And in kind of breaking through that and pulling all of that off of me and ki stepping into who I am, I've come to learn, like not only do I want to be my authentic self, I want I want others to be able to show up in that way with me as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Um, and so anytime that I see that type of stuff happening, it it does feel um a little uh like uh my insecurities are being pinged.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Yeah. And you know, I was listening to Brene Brown uh the other morning, and um, I don't know, the I think you sent me some Brene Brown stuff too, you know. We I'm I'm a I'm a fan of her work. Um and and not that I believe everything she believes or that we have, you know, a complete list of shared values, but I um I'm really fascinated by the work that she does and very appreciative of it. And um, and what she was saying, um, she I was listening to this clip where she was talking about belonging. And um I I don't know if I interpreted it in the way that she intended, but in the way that I interpreted it, I really liked it. And it was talking about um this need to feel like she belonged. She thought it meant to be accepted. And um then she finally figured out that uh I think she was she was there was an interview with somebody that she was like listening to. Um, I can't remember exactly, but um she figured out that to belong actually meant to not worry about whether how other people were going to respond. Um, and and as I was thinking about that, it got a little bit meta. But my interpretation of that is to really know that you belong means to know that you will be accepted regardless of how you show up.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

And um, and that's what true belonging means. Not that you're trying to show up in a way that makes you fit in, but that you can really be like your own individual self and people will love you in spite of it and because of it both at the same time. Um, and that I think is like such a beautiful, um, a beautiful definition of what belonging really is, and uh so opposite of how we often subconsciously define it.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Yeah. I also think that as we grow up and um, you know, going back to the conversation around like proximity and friend groups and things like that, I think your understanding of of the world and the way you move through it changes um as you get older. And so this sense of um fitting in and belonging uh truly does start to feel very different. Yeah. Um, because at some points you do just want to like fit in and you don't like you don't want to be the person who's the tallest in the room, you don't want to be the person who's the flashiest or whatever. You just want to like exist and get through. And personally, that's how I felt a lot in high school. I just wanted to get through it.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

And I guess part of what I wonder and what I need to go down the journey of exploring is like the difference between belonging and acceptance. Because I think what she was trying to say, if I were to like summarize, is that belonging is not about fitting in, it's about being accepted.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

As you are. Like you don't have to like twist and and move yourself into something else.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

It's just about being accepted as you are. And um, and so what is the difference between belonging and acceptance then? And is it really acceptance that is is valued versus versus belonging? But um, you know, it's really it's it's a very interesting thing to think about. And as somebody who has, you know, one of my core values is individuality and uh being able to be exactly as you are and being true to that and true to yourself with authenticity, um, you know, that's something that that I um you know that I like to sit and kind of think about. How do I how do I live that out in life?

SPEAKER_03 41:02

How do I live that out?

SPEAKER_01 41:04

How do I live that out? Um you talked a little bit about boundaries.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

Yes. So uh this to me was one that um whenever we are talking about um our boundaries, sometimes if we don't set up those boundaries correctly, we've talked about it can lead to burnout. Um and those can be signals that we're actually repeatedly living against our values. Like this the the burnout is ultimately this thing that when we look back on, why why am I feeling burnt out? And then you go back and you're like, oh well, I had these boundaries and these boundaries weren't respected, and then those boundaries are based on my values and my val I I didn't trust my values, I didn't stick to them, I didn't because I was in fight fight or flight, or this just needed to get done. Like I was willing to suspend the importance, again, whether it was a conscious decision or one that our minds just moved us into to get us through. Um, you begin to start to see like the interconnectivity of these things and how um this what I think of something that is maybe in the back of our heads. We're not super always conscious about our values, um, but how it begins to show up um throughout our day and throughout our lives, um, because sometimes we don't respect them. And we we talked about we did two episodes on boundaries for for this exact reason.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

And an episode on burnout.

unknown 42:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Yeah. Um, and and I often think that um for me, when boundaries aren't being respected, it's me not respecting them. And um often it's because either I'm not living intentionally in that moment, or I feel like some of my values are in conflict with each other, and I haven't quite worked out um where the in-between is. Where's the then diagram overlap space inside those values? And instead I'm trying to live, you know, on the other sides of the circles. And um, and then I just feel like I'm in this conflict uh because I haven't, you know, figured out maybe that's like not having uh a come uh an advanced enough mapping of my belief system and how that weaves it all together. Like I see all the stars in the constellation, but I can't draw the lines quite yet. I'm not sure what the picture looks like.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Yeah, I I would agree. And I I do think it's it this is another one of those that's a journey, right? Like we love to talk about it, we love to think we have it in in control and our arms around it, and then it gets a little bigger or it shifts, and it's not so not so easy to grasp anymore. It's um I don't know. I think once you really do start um kind of pulling it apart and looking at it, you do start to see it from different perspectives and and it makes you makes it. Scratch your head a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah. Well, I mean, if I think about those um those times in life when I feel have felt most conflicted over a decision that I felt was really important. And so one of those that I can think of is um COVID, the beginning of COVID. Um COVID came when my kid was um at the the end of their junior year of high school. And so we had decisions we had to make for the beginning of senior year. And it was, you know, do we do we send them back to be in person? Do we keep them at home? We didn't have strong guidance from the school system uh where we were at. And um I worked for a healthcare system. I was getting a lot of information about what was going on with COVID and how many people were dying every day in our facilities. And um, like it was really scary. And um, there was a lot we didn't know. And uh, but I also knew that, you know, they really wanted to go to school and a lot of their friends were just being sent back in. But the school was, you know, saying they were not gonna be enforcing the like masking and social distancing and you know, um, like how could they? And what like these teachers were just in these impossible decisions, and you know, high schoolers are gonna be high schoolers, and they also like, you know, you're uh in the height of ignorance in terms of like invincibility, right? Like, why worry about those things that our frontal lobe is still in development? Why worry about those things that could potentially hurt you? You know, they're they're they're like, are they even real? And yeah, so just thinking about like what do we do and what kind of decision do we make to best protect our kid? Because, you know, I believe that it is important for me to make decisions in their best interest from a health, wellness, and safety standpoint. But those those decisions feel in conflict. And um, and so if I think about that, like these are the moments where I feel like we're showing up going, I'm really conflicted and I don't know what the best way forward is, because I feel like uh both of these decisions are in conflict here. Yeah, like keeping them at home and not giving them that mental health support, that social support is hard. Um, sending them and not caring for their physical health is hard. Like what, but the physical and the mental health all go together. Um, and I don't think we were alone in that. I think many parents were in the very same spot. Um, and so I remember the advice that I was given was you need to make the decision that is the best decision you can at the time based on the information you have in the moment. And then you just need to trust that in that moment, at that time, you have made the best decision that you can with the information that you have. And as new information comes out, you can adjust your decision as you go along.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Um, but then I also think there's this like retroactive being kind to yourself because as you learn more information, you can sit here and second guess the decisions that you would have made, but like you didn't have the information at the time, right? So um, you know, I I guess our conversation is just reminding me of that scenario and feeling really conflicted and like what's the best thing to do? And sometimes you just have to make the best decision you can at the time that you have to with the information that you have, and then do your best to inform yourself um going forward.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

I mean, I I think you're right, you guys were not the only ones that were in that situation. Um, and I think that's like from a schooling perspective, from a career perspective. I really think that it's a perfect example of like the world going through something that we hadn't been through in a hundred years or something. Like it people had to figure things out for the first time and um make decisions that we didn't have all of the answers to.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Um it's like survival and happiness. They're they're both values, and yet they feel in conflict with each other. Yeah. Um, so what do we do?

SPEAKER_03 48:35

You gotta be kind to yourself. You gotta be kind, you gotta look at the facts and and make those decisions that and I I love how you said that. Like in in retrospect, once you do get that additional information, like be kind to yourself because you may have changed your mind had you known these things, but you didn't. Um you didn't, and and maybe you had an inklink about it, but it wasn't a fact at that point.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Yeah, if you if you're not seeking it out or trying to educate yourself, that's something you can hold yourself accountable for. But if you're doing your best that you are capable of in the moment to in those big decision times, then you're you're gonna have to let yourself off the hook.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

So that you have the capacity to be able to adjust and keep moving forward. Because I think if we keep living our life looking in the rearview mirror at the things that we could have, should have, would have done instead of thinking about what we're doing now and how we're living forward, we're so missing out. We're just so missing out on the opportunity to just be happy.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

Yeah, I love that. Live forward, don't live in regrets.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Yeah. I mean, easier said than done.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

Oh, a thousand percent. Um, the other area that this kind of came up that really um I thought was an interesting um um insight, and I am sure as I was going through therapy that this was something that my therapist said, but maybe at the moment I was not at a place where I could receive this. But sharing values matters more in a relationship than sharing interests. Because you and somebody could both enjoy bowling, you can both enjoy dancing. Um but whenever it comes when the rubber meets the road, if you will, like are are your decisions and the things that are guiding your decision-making um skills coming from the same place? And um it it's not saying that necessarily that you those types of relationships can't exist, but it's even more important in those types of relationships that the lines of communication stay open because it can create conflict.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think this reminds me of there are a couple examples of um individuals that we have known who are religious leaders in a church who have uh married openly, somebody who is an is an atheist or um not a part of that church. And um it's it's happened twice uh it with people that I know who I um I really enjoy and am drawn to. And I just am like, this is so interesting. Um one, because like that's so against like what I what I grew up in, but but um it's coming up for me as we're having this conversation because it's likely that they are saying, you know, it's not about my beliefs, it's about my values. And this person and I, we share values. And so the beliefs of the what and the how and all of that like is really a lot less important than, you know, the the values that we anchor ourselves on.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Um I think is like why it's so important that we don't just stay like surface level in relationships. Like I think sometimes as as you're getting to know people, it like yes, you want to make sure that you have commonalities and you enjoy spending time with one another, all of those things, but those those deeper things that like are are our core. Like, are we really being that vulnerable and sharing? And yeah, um, I think sometimes like you have to make the decision if it's worth it, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Like if this is just gonna be a fun relationship and you just use how far in uh on the circle of rings is this person? Are they acquaintance? Are they close friend and confidant or somewhere in between? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Because that that's gonna give a different level of like what you want to invest into it and whether or not you truly care. Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Um, I don't how many values do you do you think we have conflicting values? Do you think we have overlapping values? I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

I think we have more overlapping.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yeah. I think we share a lot of the same values. You think that's just by happenstance, or do you think we like without being able to articulate those for ourselves and others at the time, do you think we like just kind of saw that in each other?

SPEAKER_03 53:05

Um I think you I think you start to like see it in people. Like as you're developing relationships, you are beginning to see glimpses of people. This is my perspective on getting to know people. You are you are starting to how much am I sharing versus how much are they telling? Um if I give them something that is um private or secret, are they honoring that and not passing it along? Am I hearing them talk about other people, whether they're in our friend group or not? Like I think you start to see and suss out these things uh of the people that you hang out with or that you s you're surrounded with in life. And it is maybe isn't something we are actively seeking out, but we are definitely noticing things. Like subconsciously, you're sort of monitoring, like filtering for that. Exactly. And so I think as you I think you pull people in closer who you do identify with, right? Because once you are in a tough spot, like, oh, I don't know what the right decision is. I don't know what what I should do. Uh I need to talk to someone. You pick up the phone and you call them, or you text them. And so you I think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

You think they're gonna be your moral compass. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

Or even just like a um a gauge, like this is where I'm at. What are your thoughts? Right, wrong, and different. I know I've done that with you many a times. Um, where I've reached out expressing how I'm feeling, but not really sure what I should do. And you don't give me the answer, you you talk me through it.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Um to help me I think to kind of clear away the things um that may be b blocking or, you know, um red herrings, um, to provide that clarity and that you really do have this within you. It's just a matter of um, you know, can you see it?

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Can you see? Well, that is the art of you know, telling someone an answer by asking them the question.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

42.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

42. Also the number of gallons of oil in a barrel.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

Very important fact to know these days.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

42.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

Um Yeah, so I I just thought that it was interesting because I remember when I first started dating, it was very much so like um the Wild West. Like I didn't know what I was doing. Um, I I do feel like a lot of stuff was very surface level. And like I said, I'm pretty sure my therapist said something about this once or twice, but I didn't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

It's so interesting. We we haven't had that conversation, so it's it's very I haven't I haven't heard that from him. So it's very interesting. We haven't gotten to that part.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

I haven't gotten to that part in our journey yet.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

But also like you're married, like well, true, but like just from a relationship, like like a like a uh romantic relationship standpoint, but from a friendship standpoint, it's really interesting because if I think back over my um extended lifespan, as you would call it.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

You know, just a few years more than I than I.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Just you wait. Just you wait. Um, I'm gonna throw the biggest and most obscene party for you.

SPEAKER_03 56:35

Everyone is gonna know how old you are.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Everyone's gonna know. Um don't put it past me. In all of my years, uh, which are just a couple more than yours, I can think back over like, you know, friendships that just like were tumultuous or didn't end, you know, like well. I mean, certainly I've had a lot that I still have or that have kind of faded just because of time and you know, where we are in life and those things, um, but that you still, you know, treasure and hold dear. But there are certainly are some over life that like kind of ended with a uh a lot of noise. And um, I don't want to say end with a bang because that sounds like I'm inferring. So that's not the right noise. It's not the like not the movie Chicago type situation. Just um, you know, and and I as I think about it, it's like because you make friends with people just because like on the surface, you know, you have something in common and proximity, and then like your values are really just in conflict.

SPEAKER_03 57:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Um, which is really interesting. So, how do we better understand what our values are?

SPEAKER_03 57:44

Yeah. So as I started, like I said, I I felt like I knew that I had values, but I wasn't really sure like if I could clearly articulate them. So I started doing a lot of like internal reflection. What's my understanding of values and and what are I loved how you said it's not so much just the actions, but it's you it's it's what's internal? What are the things that are like um maybe ping you whenever you see or hear something? And really taking that time to understand it, you can journal a lot of recommendation is to just kind of um empty your mind in on topics and things into a journal.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Your mind. Empty your mind. Empty your mind is my mind has literally never been empty.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Okay, well, this this um tactic maybe isn't the right one for you. It's not for me. Um, but once you write it down and then you can go back and reflect on it, and what are common things that you are hearing? Themes, um uh beliefs, um, things that c are showing up in ways that maybe isn't um clearly articulated all in the same way, but whenever you um boil it down, it's like, oh, well, this goes to me being able to to live authentically. This to me is about being trustworthy. Yeah. This is about being um kind to people. And you can kind of start to see what themes shake out of it.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

I actually like that. I so similarly, this maybe tell you more about me than anything else. I don't know. But um, similarly, I was on this journey years ago to figure out, I was in this like kind of place from a career move standpoint where I was trying to figure out what was I gonna do next. And my question was at that time, like, do I want to keep doing what I'm still doing today? Do I want to do something different? I've done a number of things, um, like kind of all in the same space, but like, where do I want to point that? And um, what do I want next? Because I had I had left a place that I thought I was gonna retire at after that I had basically grown my whole career at after um a big corporate change in ownership. And then I had gone somewhere else and I had said, oh my gosh, I thought this was gonna be great. And now, like I don't know that I made the right, the best choice for me. It was a good short-term choice. I learned so much, um, but you know, I wasn't happy. And so I really was like thinking, well, I don't want to do this again. Like, I didn't want to make a move in the first place. I didn't, I don't you starting a new job is like it's it's intense and stressful and um like just like stability. And so um how do I that's like a bad as a recruiter to say starting a new job is sometimes just try and talk people into starting new jobs all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

Just kidding, new jobs are wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Um, but I what I did is I was thinking about what is it that I really want and how do I find the place that I want next. It was just really intimidating to sit down and write down all at once. Yeah. And so instead I'd kept this half-torn piece of printer paper that was blank, like I must have used the top half for something and you know, it's the bottom scrap half of a piece of printer paper. And I kept it on my desk to my right. And um, as things would pop into my head about what was most important to me, I would just write it down.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Um, and then I'd probably use another half-torn piece of scrap printer paper to like reorganize that list and kind of look back at it every once in a while and reorganize it. And I started really to refine like, yeah, this is this is the list. This is this is like what's most important to me. And then as I started um, you know, like interviewing and looking for other jobs, like I could really well articulate what it was that I was looking for. And then I also could choose to opt out of jobs that were not for me. And that was not a position that I had really been in before with all of my one-time experience. Um, but it really wasn't a uh that's kind of an exaggeration, but it really wasn't a position that I had been in before. And so before I was always asking, like, do you think they'll like me? Do you think they'll like me? And I had a very good friend that said, Jen, that's the wrong question. The question is, do you like them? And I'm like, I don't even know how to begin to answer that question. So I'm just gonna keep asking, do you think they'll like me? Do you think they'll like me? Um and um, and so this was my way of figuring out like, do I think I'll like them? Right. And um, you know, it was still really hard for me to opt myself out because, you know, I didn't want to close any doors. Um, do you think they'll like me? Do you think they'll like me? But um, but I think the same goes with this list of values as you just kind of compile the list and like you said, like look at it and see what the themes are and what stands out for you. Um, it helps you as you're going through and creating relationships or making decisions about what's next for you, or you know, figuring out how to live your life intentionally. Like, do I think I'll like this? Does this fit? Um not will they accept me? Do you think they'll like me? Do you think they'll like me?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

Yeah. And I do think like ultimately what what all of this has boiled down to for me is in search of living my life with intention. Yeah. These are the guideposts to help help directionalize where I'm headed. Um the stars and the constables. Exactly. Um Brene Brown actually has an exercise that she recommends that people do whenever they are trying to um figure out what their personal values are. Yeah. Um she says to take a list and she provides this huge list. It's her dare to lead list of values. And I looked at it, it's like a hundred values, maybe more.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Oh, that's overwhelming.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

Correct. And she says, okay, so narrow it down to 20.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

So then you narrow it down. And then she tells people to narrow it down to two. I'm like, okay, well, I don't, I I think 20 to 2 is still a little bit of a big jump. Maybe let's like narrow it down to 10. And then her point being, if everything is.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

If you have ADHD, don't take that path.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:21

Again, this is an exercise, I think, for us to become more aware and mindful of the things that help um guide us in in living that intentional life. And so my I the one thing that she said that I really, really liked is as you begin to look at this list that you've curated, are there certain ones that are like the um the most important that all the like one another one could spin off from? So like is your list of two? Well, like when you're looking at that list of twenty, because it can be difficult to narrow it down to two.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

It would be difficult to narrow it down to twenty, maybe out of a hundred and twenty, they're probably all like really good ones.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:10

Right, but uh b um but her point being whenever uh sometimes in in being authentic, like you using authenticity as one, I may think of kindness as allowing someone to be their authentic self. And so it's not so much an it's not as independent standalone as what I think it is. And this is why it's so personal to people, because how I see it may be very different from how you see it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

I do believe that to be so true that like how we define where the sort of the edges of those values could look very different. And I think that's like uh because our beliefs come. In differently, and we all have this different set of values, and it all like fits into the puzzle a little bit differently. They're the they're not the same shape just because they're the same word.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

Right, exactly. And and how how it shows up. Like sometimes it's it's the physical thing that we're doing, sometimes it's the the personal, internal thing that we're doing. Like it's different for everyone. And um, you know, I I truly believe that values are not just beliefs. I think they are the things that make us feel whole um when we honor them and potentially uncomfortable, stressed, drained when we aren't uh respecting them. And so whenever we when we do understand what our values are, we can better understand why and how we are showing up in certain ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

I love that you said that because I do think one of the keys to living a happy life or to finding more happiness, which is really what we are about, how do we chase happiness and grab more of it through life? It's it is really about living consistently with our values. And if we feel that we are struggling to be happy, it may be that we are not living consistently with our values. And so we're feeling uh constantly in conflict with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:22

Well, I appreciate you going on this values journey with me and for sharing your perspective. We uh we've never like dug into this, like personally. I think we've had a couple of conversations like around it, and um, we of course know each other well, and so um the conversations I don't think are um too far from here, but Nett, I don't think we've ever talked values.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

Yeah, no, this was great. Thank you for preparing this and guiding us through this. And um, if we would love to hear what all of you think about this. What do you think about what we've shared around values? Do you have like a 17th analogy to add to my list of analogies to talk about values? Um, you know, what are your values? How do you decide them? How do you think they play into happiness? We would love to hear from you. So depending on the platform you're listening on, you can leave a comment. You can reach us via email at connect at Chris and Jenitm.com. Um, or you can text us at 940-278-8129.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

And don't forget to follow us on all those social media platforms: the YouTube, the Instagram, the Facebook. You can find us under Chris and Jen ITM. Um, and come build this community with us. Come be part of it, share the content, like the content, add a comment to it. Um, we'd love to make this a conversation, not just um the two of us gabbing along. Although I do love gabbing with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

I do love gabbing with you too. And until next time, be kind to yourself, to one another, and make it a great week.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:58

Bye, everyone.